|
|
"Florence Hinds" rose Reviews & Comments
-
-
|
Jane - exactly how does "Florence Hinds" differ from 'Gruss an Teplitz'?
They look very similar to me.
|
REPLY
|
|
At Renmark, growing in the same soil, Gruss an Teplitz a.k.a. the "Gruesome Triplets" is a red rose; "Florence Hinds" is pink. Jane would have more to add.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#2 of 8 posted
27 SEP 14 by
Jane Z
|
Canes are very different as I understand it - G&T can be pegged, one would have difficulty with Hinds quite rigid canes - Hinds also a lower grower I think. (There do seem to be a diversity of bloom colours attributed to G&T, are they all correct I wonder?)
I had a young G&T for a while - & from that I think leaflet colour/texture is also different.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#3 of 8 posted
27 SEP 14 by
Jane Z
|
in my complete Hinds picture folder there are 2 images of Maranup ford foliage taken Oct 2008. especially an image of the leaflet reverses (not on HMF) shows a very different pliable green cane to the sort that Florence produces.
|
REPLY
|
|
Not pliable Jane, Just a new young cane bent over to show leaf reverse.
Have a close look at all the photos on HelpMefind to get a better idea of the habit of 'Gruss an Teplitz'.
Re: The colour and "the same soil". At Renmark, Site A89 for "Florence Hinds" and Site C18 for 'Gruss an Teplitz' seem very far apart. Perhaps volunteers might offer to grow these two roses side by side.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#5 of 8 posted
27 SEP 14 by
Jane Z
|
the long green cane in this photo looks much more pliable than any that Hinds produces.
|
REPLY
|
|
It does. But it is part of my upright growing bushes.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#7 of 8 posted
27 SEP 14 by
Jane Z
|
re-reading all the descriptions over the years it is a bit hard to see that they are the same- G&T is primarily described as red, with flat loose flowers, not how I'd describe normal Hinds blooms.
Many refs to lax growth & weak necked. they may well be closely related though. hopefully some careful closeups of the plants at Renmark can give a better indicator, hpwever MF's comment that G&T is red & Hinds is pink is pertinent.
|
REPLY
|
|
OK. Have added "pink" to "Florence Hinds" colours.
|
REPLY
|
-
-
|
Jane, Your photo of “Florence Hinds” with hips is valuable.
As is the red-tinged leaf edge.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#1 of 2 posted
24 SEP 14 by
Jane Z
|
from a distance, Hinds looks like a 'red floribunda' but up close a more complex picture emerges, the bloom fragrance & colour AND the mature leaflet shape suggest a strong Bourbon heritage to me. (Her leaflets are so similar to my MIP's).
Trouble is I know very few Bourbons, so would appreciate those who do know them, to have a look at the images of "Florence Hinds".
I was struck by the similarity of some of the bloom images of Deuil de Dr Reynard to her.
|
REPLY
|
|
Dear Jane,
I was hoping that someone with Bourbon knowledge would respond. However it seems the world is busy.
I did a little homework once to try to understand what a bourbon is. For what it is worth:
Bourbons: Vigorous, stout and strong branched shrubs. Much hybridized so a true Bourbon is hard to recognize. Graham Stuart Thomas quotes 'Mme. Isaac Pereire', 'Mme. Ernst Calvat' and 'Variegata di Bologna' as the epitome of a Bourbon. However, to me, the early Bourbons seem to look like China roses. Examples of Bourbons in chronological order. ‘Rose Edouard’ 1818; ‘Gloire des Rosomanes’ 1825 (or china hyb?); ‘Reine des Ile Bourbon’ 1834 at first thought to be a China; Brent C. Dickerson classifies ‘Hermosa’ 1834 as a Bourbon probably because the pollen parent was a bourbon, but it has more china characteristics; ‘Great Western’ 1838; ‘Honorine de Brabant’ 1840?; ‘Souvenir de la Malmaison’ 1843; GST classifies Blairii No. 2’ 1845 as a Bourbon but BCD classes it as a hybrid china; GST classes ‘Reine des Violettes’ 1860 as almost a bourbon; ‘Zephirine Drouhin’ 1868; ‘Mme. Isaac Pereire’ 1880; ‘Bardou Job’ 1887; ‘Mme. Ernst Calvat’ (sport of ‘Mme. Isaac Pereire’) 1888; ‘Gruss an Teplitz’ 1897; ‘Variegata di Bologna’ 1909; ‘Zigeunerknabe’ 1909 ‘Kathleen Harrop’ (sport of Zephirine Drouhin’) 1919.
The original Bourbons were red; they now vary from deep purplish red to pale pink.
Taking the hint of the similarity of the fragrance and leaf to 'Mme. Isaac Pereire', some of its descendants were:
Mme. Ernest Levavasseur 1900 (probably never got to Australia)
Monsieur Jules Lemaitre 1890 (1891 ref says prickles were very small)
Philemon Cochet 1890 (this seems a deep pink)
If you would like me to search out more references for any particular rose, you only need to ask.
|
REPLY
|
|
