HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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'Tangles' rose Reviews & Comments
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"[0004] The new variety of floribunda rose plant of the present invention was created by controlled breeding in May 2005 in Sparrishoop, Germany by artificial pollination wherein two parents were crossed which previously had been studied in the hope that they would contribute the desired characteristics. The female parent (i.e., the seed parent) was a seedling (non-patented) from a cross of `KORpeligo` (non-patented) x unnamed seedling. The male parent (i.e., the pollen parent) of the new variety was `KORchiaki` (non-patented).
[0005] The parentage of the new variety can be summarized as follows:
(`KORpeligo` x unnamed seedling) x `KORchiaki`"
USPP Application #20210153404
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Thanks Michael. Parentage added. Who gives a rose its code name these days? It seems in this case, the distributor might have. See reference
Possibly a renaming of Nautica ® (floribunda, Kordes, 2005)?
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I dunno. The names have been weird for about a decade now. Some names make perfect sense. Frida Kahlo is a great example, but a lot of these are just "...wtf....?....why...meh...".
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#3 of 8 posted
23 MAY 21 by
 Johno
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I agree with you about the code Patricia. Change the commercial name but why fiddle with the code. The tell tale sign of Tangles is the bud and outer petals having a red/deep pink tinge. Rosaplant's photos of Nautica appear to show this.
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#4 of 8 posted
23 MAY 21 by
jedmar
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I do not think codes are changed. Breeders usually have a number of similar seedlings. It might be that 'Kortangle' is better suited for Australian climates than Korcharblu; or there are licencing reasons to have different versions in different parts of the world.
Kordes' trademark listing for 2021 shows:
Tangles (Kortangwal) protected in Australia
Nautica (Korcharblo) protected in European Union and Serbia
Nautica (Korcut0043) protected in Colombia, Ecuador and Japan
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#6 of 8 posted
23 MAY 21 by
Johno
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Is it purely a coincidence that a whale named Tangles, rescued from fishing tackle around its tail , and a charity rose to support a whale photo identification program just happens to have the code name, KORtangwal? Don’t get me wrong, I fully support the program’s work.
A Google search will bring up the story of Tangles and its rescue off the coast near Portland, Victoria in August 2018.
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#7 of 8 posted
23 MAY 21 by
jedmar
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Of course no coincidence. Kordes has probably taken an unnamed seedling and registered it in the following year as Kortangles.
Both 'Tangles' and 'Nautica' are being commercialized in Japan this year, but named 'Matinée' and 'Prologue'. Follow the link for either name to see both roses pictured and described. 'Tangles' has a bit a larger blooms, but is more compact.
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#8 of 8 posted
24 MAY 21 by
Johno
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So I fully understand this: Kordes can send roses to a foreign country without a code (may have a numerical identification tag); the agent thinks up a code (KORtangwal), takes out a patent in that country and then Kordes adopts that code?. One can learn something every day. Am I right in saying that at the moment that there is no PBR with KORcharblu?
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#9 of 8 posted
24 MAY 21 by
jedmar
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Kordes seedlings have numerical breeder codes, indicating year of crossing, number of cross and number of seedling of that cross. For 'Nautica' (KORcharblu) e.g. KO 05/1732-02. Only a small portion of these seedlings goes into the next stage of commercialization. For KORcharblu the application for protection of the name was made in September 2017, i.e. 12 years after the crossing! The commercial trademark 'Nautica' might have been protected at the same time or even earlier, and only assigned to this rose when it was ready for commerce.
All of this is how I think these large breeders operate, they are usually very tight lipped about how they go about it. In the case of KORtangles, I believe that Kordes has sent a number of seedling for testing in Treloar's premises to see how they cope with the Australian climate. Then there was a decision to select this seedling for a marketing campaign related to Tangles the whale, an application was made to the Australian patent office with the name KORtangles. You are probably right that the suggestion for the name came from Treloar Roses (or better, Midwood Roses Pty Ltd in Portland, Victoria, which seems to be the registered legal name of Treloar Roses).
Yes, and no PBR yet for KORcharblu (according to Kordes' current trademark listing).
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Initial post
19 MAY 20 by
Plazbo
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Does anyone know anything more about this rose? Just seems odd that it's only in Australia. Why'd Kordes not release it in Europe?
The only thing google gives me is the same blurb/description from the selling page. Can't find any reference to it that isn't the adelaide trials or treloars.
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#1 of 4 posted
19 MAY 20 by
jedmar
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It was awarded a bronzemedal at the 2019 Australian Trials. We see that several breeders launch some roses only in the Southern Hemisphere (Australia, South Africa). The reason probably is that these need a relatively sunny, dry climate and would not perform well at all in moist, damp, wet, cool old Europe. Then there are varities which are marketed in Japan only, because Japanese seem to like playful, frilly varieties, which again would not sell well in Europe.
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#2 of 4 posted
19 MAY 20 by
Plazbo
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Probably....just not something I've noticed before. Every other Kordes being sold here I can find more information on from various global sources so it just stands out as odd....particularly with Australia being such a small market, just doesn't compute for Kordes to bother if that makes sense. I might be over thinking it.
It's low thorn (potentially "thornless" in the same way Blue Moon is "thornless" but has a few thorns lower down) based on what I can see from the approx foot each of 3 canes on the one that arrived yesterday.
Hopefully fertile (reportedly makes a lot of hips) because spots and lavenders (including seedlings) is a hurdle that's not working out great for me :)
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#3 of 4 posted
19 MAY 20 by
jedmar
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Sometimes they seem to introduce them in test markets, before Europe or USA
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Kordes also markets in Japan. I only know this because of the Japanese food store one city over LOL. I sometimes look at the magazines out of curiosity, and Kordes ads are in some.
Anyway, its a type of predatory marketing, combined with international branding to boost its name brand. All legal, but still kind of meh. In America, they patent some at a loss.
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Initial post
1 MAR 21 by
Plazbo
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After the fairly wet weather, has put out two new canes (both with a few side shoots) that have close to 50 buds each cane....so crazy amount of blooms, like they finally recovered the polyantha bloom capacity in a floribunda sized plant.
Doesn't seem to set OP hips but does seem capable of setting hips if pollinated (which seems to be a kind of trend with these newer Kordes, possibly actively selecting against OP hip set?). Hips so far have been less spherical and more small bottled shape but may still be swelling up (only manually pollinated approx a month ago).
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#1 of 2 posted
1 MAR 21 by
styrax
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I'd love to see it in commerce states-side. Looks like a real charmer
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#2 of 2 posted
2 MAR 21 by
Plazbo
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Hopefully one day it makes it's way over there.
I like it more than I thought I would (whereas I like Adorable, another new highly rated Kordes mauve, far far less than expected). Apart from the usual petal damage from extremes it's fuss free despite being tightly packed in the land of pots at the moment. Will likely do much better when in the ground and given more space.
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Initial post
4 MAY 20 by
Plazbo
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It's interesting that the national rose trial list this as moderate scent whereas treloars say it's very slight on their facebook (in comments)
http://www.nationalrosetrialgarden.net.au/award-winners/2019-award-winners/
https://m.facebook.com/treloarroses/posts/10161835647970207
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