Pemberton named them Hybrid Musks although they were descendants of 'Trier', a hybrid multiflora. 'Trier' itself has some Noisette in it, but is more Multiflora. The convention kept the term Hybrid Musk although it is misleading.
They have thinner stems than I would be expecting from a hybrid musk, but I am really only familiar with 'Felicia', 'Buff Beauty', 'Penelope', 'Cornelia', 'Wilhelm' and 'Prosperity', I suppose out of all of them they would be most like 'Prosperity'. I will have to wait until next year and see what the flowers are like. Going back to 'Dinky,' it has almost no scent, I think a true hybrid musk should at least have some musk fragrance.
As Jedmar said... it is a Multiflora Hybrid (of Rosa multiflora Thunb. ), like most of the so-called hybrid Musks are (like Mr. Lens bred). And like Felicia, and I have a hunch, that the others You mentioned have no or almost no Musk blood too, but a Multiflora ancestry.
When You look at Penelope, way back in the parentage tree, behind Desprez, You can actually find Rosa moschata Herrm. But what the unknown parentage is of the other used roses and/or seedlings??? There is a most interesting book about hybrid Musks written by Anne Velle with a Geneology tree of Hybrid- Moschata in it: ISBN: 978 90 209 9623 4 Maybe Anne Velle might be able/willing/so kind to upload that page... or the interested might buy this book!
Thank you for that Jay-Jay. 'Penelope' is one of my favourite roses, the bud clusters as the first blooms are just opening look quite moschata like. Apparently it is the only rose with pink hips, but I have never seen photographic evidence of this. Mine only ever manage a dullish orange.
Thomas wrote hips as heps, because of the reference to that part of a females' anatomy. He used the archaic English spelling shew/shews instead of show/shows.
No confusion over here, we call them "bottels" (not Bottles). But some hips look like bottles or are urn-shaped. Never thought of that female anatomy in combination with the rose-fruits. Freud would have liked the use of language by Graham Stuart Thomas or his hesitation to use the word hip ;-) And is the color rose/rosé (roze in Dutch) not in fact pink? Rose-hips wrongly transformed in pink hips?
Is any rose known to develop pink hips? I never saw any and never heard of that. Heard of, or seen these colors: Red, orange, yellow, green, all in different shades... and black hips. Brown and gray hips too, but they were rotten or mouldy.
In Graham Stuart Thomas Shrub Roses of Today, 1974 revised edition p.162-3:
'Penelope'. ...By late November the heps develop their soft colouring, it is a delightful diversion from the usual red, glossy berries of most shrubs to find these heps are dull and bloom-covered, and change from cool green to coral pink slowly. The warmer the autumn the more highly coloured they become, and last for many weeks. I know of no other shrubs with berries approaching this colour. (Plate III, heps only.).
There is even a coloured plate which I think was painted by Thomas himself, 'Penelope' on the centre left.
Thank You, That's indeed pearl pink. Would be nice in fall/winter. Never seen before. The description on HMF states orange hips. Maybe a member has some hip-photo's (no röntgen images) and can upload them. Or make some, for on the Northern Hemisphere it is the time for rose-hips. Maybe a part of this discussion might be transplanted to the Penelope page?
