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'Frau O. Plegg' rose Reviews & Comments
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Since it's been suggested that this rose may be the same as the once-flowering Great Western, I have asked La Campanella (nursery from Italy) about whether and how well this rose repeats. They told me they have grown it for several years, and that there is definite repeat, though not super-abundant. They also told me right now (end of June) the rose is in its second flush (which is amazing by my SE England gardening standards, and I guess is due to Italy's warmer springs/summers). I have ordered a plant from them and am curious to see how it performs in my cooler English climate. Reports from Switzerland (Weingart clone) and Brittany (Andre Eve clone) say the repeat is poor. All clones should be the same (from Sangerhausen), as I think the rose was rediscovered only quite recently by Andre Eve.
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#1 of 8 posted
26 JUN 19 by
 jedmar
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Looking forward to your experience!
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#2 of 8 posted
23 JUN 20 by
Hamanasu
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About this rose's repeat: not sure if this technically counts as a second flush, but while the first flush was underway, my (potted) plant started throwing up two basal shoots, one of which is now in bloom, about 3-4 weeks after the end of the first flush (that is, after the blooms that appeared in May on last year's wood were spent). If this counts as a second flush (rather than part of an intermittent first flush), it is indeed light. If I get another flush between now and the autumn, I'll report.
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#3 of 8 posted
24 JUN 20 by
jedmar
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Checked my photos again and found one from early August, the rest are all May/June. 'Frau O. Plegg'' was listed in Sangerhausen in 1936. Curiously, nowhere else in early literature. Plegg is a family name from northwestern Germany. Maybe a one-off seedling bought from Nabonnand during a visit? The attribution seems so precise. Could not find any info on Plegg family, though Plegge exists in the Lengerich/Osnabrück area.
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#4 of 8 posted
24 JUN 20 by
Hamanasu
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Interesting hypothesis about the one-off seedling -- especially, perhaps, because bourbons were not the breeder's specialty (I did find a handful of hybrid perpetuals in the plants P Nabonnand bred, but his -- and I guess the family's -- bias was clearly towards teas, HTs, and hybrid giganteas).
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#5 of 8 posted
25 JUN 20 by
jedmar
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There are some more mysteries: According to Jäger, the bourbon 'Frau O. Plegg' was in Sangerhausen in 1936. However, he had only question marks as to breeder and year. Nabonnand, 1909 seems to have been added later. As you mention, Nabonnand was breeding Teas and Hybrid Gigantea. The first HPs only appeared in 1922. These red roses ('S.A. Prince Youssouf Kamal' and 'S. M. Gustave V' were reported by Jäger again (Need to check if there are other sources). Bourbon roses do not fit into his programme, especially not in 1909. Is it a bourbon actually, or maybe also a tall HP?
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#6 of 8 posted
25 JUN 20 by
HubertG
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If it really was introduced by Nabonnand, I wonder if it was perhaps simply a colour sport that randomly appeared locally and was given to Nabonnand to introduce. It might explain why it wasn't the Nabonnands' typical fare.
Another thought is that the name 'Frau O. Plegg' could be a corruption from 'Freiherr von Ploeg', if perhaps 'Freiherr von Ploeg' had been written down in someone's notes as Fr. v. Ploeg. It's not inconceivable that a cursive 'v' could be misread as an 'o', and then the surname might have been mistranscribed. I notice too that there isn't a file here for 'Freiherr von Ploeg'.
I found a listing in the 1918 American Rose Annual, page 115, for 'Freiherr von Ploeg' amongst those roses discarded by George C. Thomas, Jr., so it was apparently a real introduction:
"Freiherr von Ploeg. Growth tall, quite bushy; fairly good bloomer; not distinct."
... so no colour description, and I wouldn't know if that sort of description fits 'Frau O. Plegg' anyway.
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#7 of 8 posted
25 JUN 20 by
jedmar
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We had 'Freiherr von Ploeg' listed in the entry of the Rosenlexikon for 'Frauu O. Plegg' due to the same similarity which caught your attention, but not made a separate listing due to missing corroboration from any other source. With the American Rose Annual reference, this might now be the time to make a separate listing.
Does the discarding by George C. Thomas imply that it was one of his cultivars?
It seems strange that he would have used a German name. Stranger even is that there was no "Freiherr von Ploeg" in Germany (or Baron von Ploeg). Checked the Gotha. The name is of Dutch origin as "van der Ploeg" and exists in the Netherlands and USA.
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#8 of 8 posted
25 JUN 20 by
HubertG
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No, it wasn't implied it was one he'd bred. The article lists hundreds of well-known and uncommon varieties that he either retained or discarded based on performance because he had moved his rose garden site. Here's the link:
https://archive.org/details/americanroseannu1918amer/page/108/mode/2up?q=freiherr
Yes, it's odd that there seems to be no other references to any personage Freiherr von Ploeg.
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I dislike frilly/wavy-petalled roses (the frilliness of Rosemary Harkness has always stopped me from buying it despite its reputed passion fruit scent)... unless they're red/crimson ones like Eugene Furst, which pulls its frilliness off with flair. Now, not only is Frau O Plegg seriously frilly and flouncy, but quartered, when not five-centred! Possibly the most over the top looking rose in my garden. The scent is very sweet, similar to the peach tea scent of Mme Louis Laperriere, but with less tea and more damask in the blend (which broadly makes sense, if Frau O Plegg is a bourbon). It took me a while to figure the fragrance out -- the damask is mixed with the peach notes, so they are not as easily detectable as in Mme Louis Laperriere.
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It seems, that the rose, wich is namend in Sangerhausen "Frau O. Plegg" actually is "Great Western". It´s not clear, if Sangerhausen even have "Frau O. Plegg" in their sortiment.
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