HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
DescriptionPhotosLineageAwardsReferencesMember RatingsMember CommentsMember JournalsCuttingsGardensBuy From 
'Rose du Roi à Fleurs Pourpres' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 106-542
most recent 5 FEB 21 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 16 NOV 17
* This post deleted by user *
Reply #1 of 0 posted 5 FEB 21 by Patricia Routley
Details moved to “Not Rose du Roi a fleurs Pourpre”.
REPLY
Discussion id : 36-849
most recent 22 AUG 16 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 1 JUN 09 by jedmar
Most of the pictures of 'Rose du Roi à fleurs pourpres' show a probable impostor: a rose which has a modern look to it, and does not fit into the Portland category. Are there any views on this?
REPLY
Reply #1 of 4 posted 7 OCT 12 by mtspace
I think it is probable that "Rose du Roi" and "Rose du Roi a Fleurs Pourpres" have been confused from time to time. And I think there certainly is a at least one rose with dark purple flowers that has a more modern look to it that has been sold under one or the other of the names above for some time. I notice that Vintage Gardens sells two roses under the moniker "Rose du Roi" which they subtitle "(of commerce)" and "(original)." These they list as Damask Perpetuals, as they seem to fit that description well. They also sell "Rose du Roi a Fleurs Pourpres" as a Hybrid Perpetual. Here, again, their dark purple rose has the long petals that impart a modern look to the rose, especially in bud. This organizational schema solves most of the more serious practical problems of distinguishing these three different cultivars from each other going forward. While it might be inconsistent with some of the history, it's clear that the history of these roses has some inconsistencies and/or missing information.

I notice, too, that if all the photos of the dark purple rose with long petals listed here under the two entries that contain "Rose du Roi" were moved into "Rose du Roi a Fleurs Pourpres" and all the ones that depicted a more damascene flowers in crimson tones were moved to "Rose du Roi" most of the glaring problems with the photos would go away. We may never know what has actually happened, but it might be possible to make things a bit clearer for future rose growers. Just a thought.
REPLY
Reply #2 of 4 posted 8 NOV 12 by evan500
Thank you mtspace for your clarification on this. I have been consulting books and various online rose sellers' websites the last week or so trying to make sense out of this. I wanted to purchase one of them, but was confused about the differences. I ended up buying Rose du Roi (original) from Vintage Gardens which I think I will be happy with but wasn't exactly confident on the distinctions.
REPLY
Reply #3 of 4 posted 14 APR 16 by AlanaSC
Take a look at the two pictures I just posted. They were sold as Rose du Roi, but later found out it was not the original, so through photo's figured it was this one.
REPLY
Reply #4 of 4 posted 22 AUG 16 by Hardy
Here's another tidbit to thicken the mystery. The recently released paper, 'Nineteenth century French rose (Rosa sp.) germplasm shows a shift over time from a European to an Asian genetic background,' tested over a thousand roses to see how they grouped genetically. Their sample of Mogador, from Loubert Rose Garden, was a diploid that fit into a genetic group with some bourbons, polyanthas, noisettes and a couple of HTs. While I could believe that the original might have had some bourbon ancestry, I would really not expect diploidy!

And mislabeled Mogador is nothing new, Graham Stuart Thomas (The GST Rose Book, p.147) had some which could be traced back to 1893, but said it "produces fairly constantly medium-sized blooms with surprisingly high centres for its period... It is doubtful whether this rose is correctly named; it bears no resemblance to 'Rose du Roi'. The original 'Rose du Roi' was raised at Sevres in 1819 and figured in Jamain et Forney, Plate 58, showing the typical 'high shouldered' effect, with the top leaf immediately under the flower."
REPLY
© 2024 HelpMeFind.com