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Terre
most recent 1 DEC 17 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 26 MAY 05 by Jean Marion
I usually only have PM on a couple of roses... this year Distant Drums is covered from head to toe in blackspot. Very unusual for this locale. Had to shovel prune, although there is not another rose that looks quite like it out there...
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Reply #1 of 9 posted 26 MAY 05 by Terre
Hello Decobug,
Can you tell me if your Distant Drums was grafted or an own-root plant? I test roses and have found the own-root Buck roses are far hardier than the grafted form. In fact, I don't know why the industry insists on putting hardy Buck roses on a graft. A breeder explained this rose was susceptible to disease as an own-root as a reason for the graft. Your experience makes it sound like that did not improve it's chances.
Thank you, Terre Ashmore
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Reply #2 of 9 posted 26 SEP 11 by Organic Roses-Honeybee Garden
Terre, I have an own-root Distant Drums and it is exceptionally tiny and fragile. It keeps shedding and regrowing leaves at the exact same interval, hence its inabilty to get any larger. I call it a Bonsai rose....It is already in its 2nd year in my garden and it never grows beyond 11" tall and 6" wide, lol! But I would never SP it because of its fast rebloom and the flowers are consistently lovely....It is growing in a 4' long pot. The exact same sized pot that all my huge climbers grow separately in, but the climbers flourish and grow to the Max! Not so with Bonsai Distant Drums...

On the other hand, the grafted versions I've seen at a nearby all-organics city garden are grafted Distant Drums which are short and stubby 2'8" bushes. 2'8" is far better than my 11", lol!
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Reply #3 of 9 posted 26 SEP 11 by Kim Rupert
My old Arena budded plant grows in half day sun in Newhall, Ca in my youngest sister's back yard. It gets watered by the sprinklers and rain, is never sprayed nor even fertilized and it remains about three and a half feet tall by nearly as wide. This is an intensely fragrant, beautifully odd colored rose but definitely not a strong, robust grower in many areas of the country. Much like BUCblue, Blue Skies and Silver Shadows, Dr. Buck selected it for the flower color, NOT the health and vigor of the plant. He'd written he felt like Henry Ford...you could have a rose in any color as long as it was pink. These were such dramatic departures from his body of work, he introduced them. There are MUCH better Buck roses to be had, but the vast majority are PINK.
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Reply #4 of 9 posted 30 NOV 17 by mamabotanica
Kim do you think in Pasadena ca that an own root distant drums would do ok? I have a spot saved for it at the dimensions listed (about 4x4) and am hoping it gets that size.just ordered it as own root because my local Armstrong (aren't all of their roses grafted?) won't have it for months.
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Reply #5 of 9 posted 30 NOV 17 by Kim Rupert
As long as it isn't cooked by being too close to any hardscape and too long, too continuous very hot sun; is grown in decent soil and provided regular feeding and watered appropriately, it should grow acceptably. Of course, being set back by regular Chilli Thrip attacks is going to stunt its performance, so keeping as "on top" of them as you can will help. And, I would definitely dis bud it, prevent it from flowering much, until it achieves something close to what you want. The more wood and foliage the plant has, the greater the momentum to grow. You should also do what you can to encourage new basal growth so when you prune (which should probably be sparingly, until it's larger), more new growth is generated to maintain its size. Good luck!
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Reply #6 of 9 posted 30 NOV 17 by mamabotanica
Thanks much! I really appreciate all the info- esp to stay on top of thrips. Recently bought a sprayer and some deadbug juice just for that!
Joam
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Reply #7 of 9 posted 30 NOV 17 by Kim Rupert
You're welcome! Good luck! Thank heavens I don't have them here. When they arrive, I'm done. That's too much work and too much exposure to chemicals I simply won't expose myself, pets and loved ones to. See if the own root plant works and whether it does or not, pick up a budded one when they are available. I think seeing the two close to each other will teach you much about the benefits of budding, particularly with weaker varieties.
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Reply #8 of 9 posted 1 DEC 17 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Kim, Tom Carruth told me they were coming and yes, they are finally here.

It took me a few months to figure out what was happening. They seem to like some varieties much better than others. You KNOW I won't spray!!

I figure it will be a good opportunity to concentrate on breeding THRIP resistant varieties??

Looking online it seems there are a fair number of natural predators.

I had problems for years with Mites until a natural balance was established. Hopefully they same will hold true with our new friends the Chilli Thrip.

Life does go on. R-
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Reply #9 of 9 posted 1 DEC 17 by Kim Rupert
Ouch, I'm sorry, Robert! Yes, that would permit you to see what resists them. I guess that's one sliver of a silver lining.
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most recent 25 DEC 16 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 21 JUN 05 by Unregistered Guest
How does this compare to Mr Lincoln or Black Magic, as I have both of these in my
garden now. Does it have the velvet texture ? How long do the blooms last? --K Haas
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Reply #1 of 12 posted 22 JUN 05 by Anonymous-97434
Papa Meilland is a weaker grower, just as fragrant as Mr. Lincoln, much blacker and more addicted to mildew and rust. Papa Meilland, Mr. Lincoln and Oklahoma are all from the same parents and share similarities. Meilland is the weaker grower and more diseased troubled. Its blooms should last similarly to Mr. Lincoln. I haven't grown Black Magic so I can't comment on it. Would I grow Papa Meilland? I have grown it. It's beautiful. If you want "black roses" with fragrance, Papa and Oklahoma are two of the 'better" black roses.
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Reply #5 of 12 posted 30 JUL 07 by BAM
I am interested in trying Papa Meilland, and would like to know if it can stand up to the heat in the summer. I live in zone 7 in the mid Atlantic region, and it gets hot and humid. Opening Night and Olympiad do well, lasting a week to 10 days in the garden, but have no scent. Love's Magic (Liebeszauber) only lasts 3-4 days from tight bud with open sepals to seeing the edges of the bloom "burn". I want to find a dark red rose with good scent that will last a week in the garden.

thanks,
BAM
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Reply #6 of 12 posted 30 JUL 07 by Judith C.
Papa Meilland was created in a hot place, zone 7, where I am. I haven't got that one, but Botero stands the heat very well, as does the new Harkness Carris ... Botero has a fantastic scent ...
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Reply #7 of 12 posted 30 JUN 12 by Tom Smith
Hey, Tom here! Where did you purchase your Botero from? According to the HMF site all of the vendors are out of the country. (USA) If you have any ideas on how to get a plant, let me know. Thanks!
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Reply #8 of 12 posted 1 JUL 12 by HMF Admin
And us (HMF) too !
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Reply #9 of 12 posted 1 JUL 12 by Judith C.
Hi, Tom! Sorry, but bought from Meilland here in France. I'll have a look, but I presume they won't post to the US - problems with customs, etc.. :(
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Reply #2 of 12 posted 25 JUN 05 by Terre
I have had good experience with Papa Meilland and really treasure it's rich color. It is somewhat subject to mildew just like it's sibling Mr. Lincoln, and does not grow the hefty canes (yet) that Mr Lincoln can. It does have a velvety substance or texture and is best grown with companion plants to reduce burning from sunglare and heat reflecting soil.
Terre
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Reply #4 of 12 posted 20 JUL 07 by BAM
Terre,

I saw your answer to a question you posted in 2005 concerning Papa Meilland and its potential for the petals to burn. I live in the mid Atlantic region, and it gets HOT and HUMID in the summer. Do you think I will have trouble with petal burn, and will it be worth trying? Also, could you comment on the "shape" of the bush, rounded like 'Sunset Celibration, Wide V like 'St Patrick', etc.

Thanks,
BAM
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Reply #3 of 12 posted 30 AUG 05 by Unregistered Guest
Most will say that Papa is more difficult to grow than Mr Lincoln, however I have not found Papa that touchy. I feel that Papa has a more pleasant sweeter fragrance that Mr Lincoln (although both are super!). Mr Lincoln in my garden opens flatter and is slightly lighter in colour. On the negative side Papa's growth is more untidy that Mr Lincoln.

I have not grown Balck Magic so I cannot comment on this rose.
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Reply #10 of 12 posted 25 DEC 16 by Michael Garhart
Black Magic is virtually scentless, and quite cold prone. Mr Lincoln and Oklahoma are HUGE HTs. I have seen many that are 10' tall here. Papa M, like Crimson Glory is a weak little thing, with really neat blooms.

Firefighter is really good, but not "black". Velvet Fragrance is also great, and dark, but it is very heat prone.

There really is no "best fragrant black-red" yet. It's a color littered with issues yet to be bred out.

I am currently growing Claret. It will be its 2nd year next summer, so time will tell. It is dark, short, and fragrant.
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Reply #11 of 12 posted 25 DEC 16 by Nastarana
There was heavy rain one spring in the Central Valley. That year, the Mr. Lincoln blooms were as big as dinner plates.
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Reply #12 of 12 posted 25 DEC 16 by Michael Garhart
Yup. Proudland gets that way too.
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most recent 13 NOV 11 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 9 MAR 06 by Kim Rupert
Many years ago, I'd read that R. Fedtschenkoana was a tetraploid, it has the same number of chromosomes as modern roses, and that it repeated its bloom over the summer. I was looking for a "species" rose which hadn't been over used creating modern roses, and which had characteristics I liked and wanted to include in a breeding line. This one seemed to fit what I wanted. I shouldn't encounter creating sterile offspring with odd numbers of chromosomes, as had occurred with Teas and Rugosas, as this had matching sets with the modern roses I'd be using. It has beautiful, unusual foliage, with an odd scent. I knew what had come of using Foetida with the roses of the day, and wondered what could be gotten from this one. The problem was, it wasn't easily obtained.

R. Fedtschenkoana wasn't in the Huntington Library Study Plot, where the species and Old Garden Roses were grown. None of my usual sources offered it and the one I had found who did offer it, didn't have it available.

Our volunteer group at The Huntington was quite active in those years. A wonderful volunteer had received a rather nasty diagnosis, she had inoperable brain cancer. Joan Kennedy had a beautiful garden in the La Canada/Flintridge area and she was no longer able to care for it. As it was spring, we decided the volunteer group should visit and clean her garden for her. I forget how many of us made it out to Joan's that Saturday, but I'll always remember how touched she was we had made the effort and came to see her. Each of us took an area and began cleaning and pruning out the dead growth and weeds. I was sent out to the fence area where her garden bordered a large park area. She grew species along that fence. One plant I found sure seemed to fit the description of R. Fedtschenkoana. When we stopped for lunch under her enormous oak tree, I asked her what the plant was. She replied it WAS Fedtschenkoana and she loved it. I told her of my quest for it and what I thought it might produce and she begged me to take as much of the stand as I wanted. She didn't have to offer it twice!

I only dug the suckers which threatened to devour her lawn, and those filled a trash bag. Each was lovingly potted that afternoon when I returned to my garden. The weather was already turning hot, yet those suckers all took. Every single, invasive one grew into lovely, interesting plants. The new growth tips and foliage showed lavender tints with reddish prickles. And, there was the most amazing scent to the new growth! It immediately impressed me as resembling that of a freshly cut Noble Fir Christmas tree in a room with a hardwood fire. It was fresh, and the Christmas tree impression felt "joyful" to me. As the growth matured, it did take on the "ghostly" impressions I'd read of. The mature leaves do have a sort of silvery white cast over the light green base. The growth matured quickly! This rose wants to GROW!

It didn't bloom until the next spring, and I eagerly awaited experiencing the scent I'd read of. It had been described as Linseed Oil, much like the scent of R. Foetida. Yup, that it was! The quarter sized flowers were a clean, pure white and were sprinkled over the tops of the new canes. Each was held on short, nearly mossy, stems. Each stem and new growth tip continued to offer the Noble Fir and hardwood smoke scent. The combination of the two scents was most unusual.

I'd found homes for nearly all of the potted suckers, and planted the largest pot out on the edge of my garden where I thought I could afford to allow it to roam. It didn't take long for it to create a stand of about ten by ten feet. It slowly expanded each year and provided many suckers over many years. I tried nearly every pollen I could think of on it, as well as its pollen on every roses which had proven very fertile. Nothing came of any of my efforts for some years. The plant would make its elongated, brilliant red hips, each containing a few seeds, but nothing germinated from any of them. Eventually, I obtained two small seedlings from one cross of Fedtschenkoana on Orangeade. I'd discovered through studying breeding reports that Orangeade could nearly be pollinated with dirt. It is that fertile! It was obvious the two seedlings were not self fertilized. They resembled the species with the odd scent, which Orangeade doesn't have. In this cross, however, the Noble Fir and hardwood smoke scent had changed to more of a Pine scent. They grew for two years before they offered any flowers. And, they got BIG!

One of the two seedlings remained at about four to five feet, quite bushy and a very vigorous spreader. The flowers were a light pink, deeper than a blush pink, with about three to four rows of petals. The flowers seldom opened fully, remaining more of a tulip shape. They were carried on the expected short stems, still "mossy", but with the pine type scent. They did, however, contain the expected Foetida-type odor. What was most interesting was the buds appeared at leaf axis along the top six inches of each cane, unlike the species, which were mainly at the very ends of the canes.

The second Orangeade seedling very quickly outgrew its one gallon can and suckered throughout the planter the can was set in to keep track of it. It was so small, and really didn't seem to pose that much of a threat to the surrounding areas. Before I knew it, this rose was popping up all along the fire road which bordered the garden! It infiltrated the other pots and narrowed the already insufficient path on the other side of the planter. This one pushed canes to well over seven feet, and most of them carried several blooms on longer stems and mostly at the cane tops like the species. While the first seedling described above, mostly bloomed during spring type weather, this one bloomed from spring to fall! The flowers contained two to three rows of petals. The pointed, small buds were a blush pink, expanding to large, pure white open blooms, showing many stamen. And, yes, it smelled like the species and its sister seedling. This one also produced the same brilliant red, elongated hips, only much larger and with larger, more plentiful seeds. I've not germinated any as I've not had the intestinal fortitude to deal with what they might produce!

Both of these seedlings are deciduous, as is their parent. Both provide very nice autumnal foliage, as does the species. The Orangeade genes not only altered the white flowers to pink, but also intensified the seasonal foliage colors. And, just as the species, they are wickedly prickly!

I'd initially hoped to include Fedtschenkoana in my seedlings because there were no known hybrids of it. Why spend time reproducing what others have already done? You can imagine my surprise when recent enzyme tests showed this species helped create Autumn Damask! The species no one apparently had ever deliberately used, already contributed to Old Garden Roses. OK, then, what if I added genes not previously used, then replicated some of the known crosses which led to modern roses? I decided to try Fedtschenkoana pollen on Dottie Louise, my Orangeade X Basye's Legacy cross. Dottie Louise is also quite fertile and is half Orangeade, so it should work. It worked like a charm, resulting in eight or nine widely varying seedlings. Now that Lynnie, a parallel cross with Dottie Louise, has proven so healthy and arctic hardy, I must begin with Fedtschenkoana on her. But, these are other stories.

Joan passed away later that summer. I did have the opportunity to share with her how well her Fedtschenkoana had grown in their pots, and how I'd been able to spread her beloved rose to others who also wanted to grow it. Rose lovers are a wonderfully generous lot. These seedlings represent Joan's generosity, for which I shall always be grateful.
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Reply #1 of 5 posted 12 MAR 06 by Terre
You know Kim, you never cease to amaze me with your carefully crafted stories of worlds so much closer to my heart than that 'reality' we all must still deal with on a daily basis. I perused the HMF site a few days ago for the first time in months and I copied this post in an e-mail to myself, for a time when I could read its length with care. It thrilled me to think that a rose you describe as so enticing would be found so close to my (new) home in Sunland. So I hurried back to the HMF site to discover the name of the author and beg a piece of this unique rose, and Lo! It was you... of course. You are a wonderful soul, thank you for being who you are! Terre Ashmore
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Reply #2 of 5 posted 16 MAR 06 by Kim Rupert
How lovely, Terre! Thank you! So, when are you coming up for a piece of Fedtschenkoana? Kim
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Reply #3 of 5 posted 19 MAR 06 by Terre
LOL! I would love a piece of another delightful rose from you... tell me when and I'll be there! Terre
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Reply #4 of 5 posted 13 NOV 11 by Harbor Rose Garden
Kim, I really enjoyed this story. I can see how rose breeding can become an addictive habit, lol. Gean
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Reply #5 of 5 posted 13 NOV 11 by Kim Rupert
Thank you! I'm pleased it pleased you.
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most recent 24 NOV 10 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 6 NOV 03 by Unregistered Guest
I have been looking for a Magic Lantern rose. Heirloom Roses in St. Paul suggested I contact your nursery. Can you help locate this rose for me?
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Reply #1 of 7 posted 7 NOV 03 by Unregistered Guest
The last vendor listed carrying Magic Lantern is Muncy's. They are at www.muncyrose.com but I don't see it on their site. Sorry.
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Reply #2 of 7 posted 9 MAR 06 by Anonymous-797
I am sorry to say that Mr. Ken Muncy passed away unexpectedly in early Jan.2006. The Muncy Nursery is no more. They have closed the nursery
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Reply #3 of 7 posted 10 MAR 06 by Unregistered Guest
Your best bet is to find a plant and take a cutting. Its worth while I have a Magic Lantern and they are a wonderful rose.
Greg
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Reply #4 of 7 posted 13 MAR 06 by Terre
Funny you should ask...

Boy, do I have a story to tell about this one:

Magic Lantern was deliberately withdrawn from access by the public market in 2001 by the patent holder: Jackson & Perkins. It is a fabulous rose and this decision isn't uncommon when professional breeders desire exclusivity of certain traits or for reasons of their own. It happens all the time. I was told the patent was no longer available for purchase rights either which merely confirmed my suspicions it would be impossible to find later. I was in the industry at the time and got several of the last specimens of this delicious rose after advance knowledge of their intent. As a true blue rose addict, I grabbed what I feared I'd never have access too again, and planted them in my public gardens.

I had a collection of some 900 roses. Among my collection were roses for propagation stock which were about 50 'sports' and hundreds of antiques which are unpatented; others which were being tested as a service to known rose breeders, 100 were rescued, others were 'found', and SOME(like Magic Lantern) were patented varieties I could not do anything with but plant in my gardens open to the public for walks and meditation.

When tragedy befell my gardens and my family, I contacted the rose society I belonged too and lovingly listed all my roses as available at less than wholesale, in order to save them.

To this day I remain shocked at what happened following that innocent outreach! Some vile excuse for a 'consulting rosarian' used the internet to publicly accuse me of propagating patented material without paying patent fees (not even close to the truth) because she'd misunderstood the list. She even re-wrote my list to reflect her libelous statements and e-mailed it too more collectors. Among those roses she falsely accused me of illegally propagating was Magic Lantern (I gave away what I'd bought). My point in writing this is DO NOT PROPAGATE THIS ROSE or any other that is patented. It gets weirder...

Guess who secretly contacted me to propagate that and many other patented roses?! Other rose society members! (Of course I refused!) Wow! too weird for me, I GAVE the roses away, and cancelled my rose society support.

My advice is be careful, there's a million wonderful rose lovers out there but that one bad apple can get a loose stem and fall right in your lap!

My name is Terre Ashmore and I'm a rose addict... thanks for letting me share.
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Reply #5 of 7 posted 31 MAR 10 by Basheba
That's sad that someone would do that after you were being so kind. I have yet to figure out why some people are so vile. That woman could have contacted you first before she jumped to conclusions. My only guess is that people like that are very unhappy in life.
I hope you build your rose garden back up!
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Reply #6 of 7 posted 1 APR 10 by Unregistered Guest
Thank you for your kind thoughts and deeds. I have returned to my horticultural roots, so-to-speak: I teach horticultural classes on designing and installing habitat for wild and captive animals. Only wild and species roses are in my collection now, and my views on organized groups is circumspect at best... I prefer the individuals God puts in my path to the groups!
Keep the (Gardeners') Faith!
Sincerely,
Terre Ashmore
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Reply #7 of 7 posted 24 NOV 10 by Michael Garhart
Washington Park has it in their garden. Their rules state that you may ask for cuttings if you prove that the variety is no longer available commercially.
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