HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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Hi Arturo, off the top of your head, can you give some of the sequence of bloom of the different varieties, focusing on the David Austins and Miss All-American Beauty and other hybrid teas?? I am trying to do some research on roses growing under low heat accumulation. The ones that leaf out early I'm interested in too. Thanks!!! Nate
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Hi Nate, the first thing that crosses my mind is that our growing seasons are becoming visibly shifted ahead of our astronomical seasons. That means spring wake up is 6 weeks later than before and fall growth is delayed too. I still have last blooms on 'The Poets Wife' after a couple of days of -4ºC hard frost. So does 'Rabelais' or 'Goldmarie' two floribundas. In consequence the initial bloom of all roses cluster together at the same time but after New year. Before it started mid November. Next spring I'll try to keep detailed records of what seems to bloom or leaf out first and when. MAAB is a midsummer bloomer here. Not a spring bloomer. Although it does have later flushes, the peak is in mid-February. I'm getting to understand better the blooming pattern of my DAs. The first bloom can be scarce, they tend to pick up with the second flush in mid february. So there's something of heat build up there too. Then third and fourth are less than #2 but still more than #1. I have noticed this pattern in 'Gertrude Jekyll', but not in 'Sceptere'd Isle' being a not so good rebloomer here. Since I have doubts about their position in the garden beds and how well fed and watered they were this past season, I need to check each of them again. Arturo
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Thanks Arturo....at my parent's garden in San Diego Rabelais hasn't been pruned in years and has a springlike flush in early winter, actually the peak bloom of the year for the plant. Rats on MAAB, I really like that one but I need the early bloomers for my waterless project where I'm trying to get roses to 'flip seasons' and complete their seasonal cycle in winter. Nate
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I had to look closely your location and growing conditions. Somehow I thought you were placed in the northwest, but if understand correctly you are east of LA. If so I'll give you a recent discovery of how I grow my roses in a natural summer drought region. This fall, drought extended until around June 1, and only this present week has the soil become thoroughly moist!. We have a greenhouse vegetable commercial operation; very small size.The lining has to be renovated about every 4 years so we have left over lining.I use it to prepare my rose beds. I dig a hole about a spade length ( 30 cm.) and place a raw wool layer, then add dry oak leaves and well rotted compost. Place the root ball in the center and surround it with my very sandy soil mixed in halves with barn sweepings. Then continue the top the same. I wrap raw wool like a scarf around the crown all the way up to the bud union and repeat the compost+leaf mixture on top of it.Finally I add, the poorest soil I can find covering everything up. This keeps my weed population low. The plastic lining role is to AVOID DRAINAGE. Exactly the opposite of what water wealthy people preach across the world. When one has scarce supply of water you have to try to make the best of whatever water you get. Letting it drain into lower acquifers isn't the trick. I managed to reduce my drip watering to no more than once in a week. Arturo
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Hunh. So anaerobic conditions don't develop during the cooler rainier periods?? I actually did the same thing larger scale....the soil on the waterless garden site is wretched rocky sand that doesnt retain water. We brought in 45 cm of heavier clay containing soil and amended heavily with compost. During the rainy season water accumulates at the boundary between the two types and acts as a reservoir. The two top performers have been Old Blush and Madame Alfred Carriere, giving a huge performance during the winter. Evelyn isn't quite as winter-active but gives a performance a bit later than the other two.
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The lining is relatively water-proof but not air proof. Greenhouse lining breathes somewhat. So with the depth I'm considering ( fairly shallow...not 45 cm deep) there's no danger of anaerobic condition developing during the rainy season. Second roses like almost all plants need the first 30 cm below the surface. It doesn't make sense to dig further. Anchor roots that go deeper are solely to keep the roses anchored, not for much else. So in a water tight condition, having natural "wretched" rocky sandy soil, I would simply sieve that soil and work on improving it with OM without adding any clay. The sand will provide aereation ( so do small pebbles and grit) which really boosts root growth. I think that your questions require contending with all the "accepted" ways of growing roses and questioning one by one each of the guidelines. If you go against the mainstream, understanding your peculiar constraints, you will discover how many more roses you can grow in your "wretched" place. Its re-setting your mind frame. Drought has come to stay there, as climate changing patterns become self evident worldwide. In desert areas pèople for centuries have built reservoirs of winter rain-water for use during the growing season. Roses do well in deserts. So there's no reason to give up. Arturo
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Oh I see. I didn't add any clay, but the soil brought in did have some clay in it. My understanding is that because of the texture difference between the two soil types the water tends to accumulate at the boundary. That is, the volume of water remaining in the soil after it rains or is watered is about 15 to 25% for sandy soils, 35 to 45% for loam soils, and 45 to 55% for clay soils. So there is water retained above the boundary.
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Nate,I see no harm if water is retained for a while in a boundary zone. If you were to have copious rains and run-off water accumulates on the surface ( until it either seeps under or evaporates) the over the top puddle doesn't drown or harm your bush. It is just a temporary situation. Roses can handle that unscathed. Thus if the same happens 45 cm underneath I see no reason of concern. The bush will pump upwards the necessary water for its evapotranspiration needs and remainder will seep further down through cracks or micro channels. The point that I'm making is that actually building an artificial "reservoir" in the boundary is smart on your part! As I mentioned before, roses also need air around their active growing zone( the minute feeder hair like roots). This zone is concentrated mostly in the upper 20 cm, so if further down some roots discover that there's hidden water. Hurray! Arturo
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Hurray!!! Thanks Arturo. Nate
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Nate, Please PM whenever you wish to discuss technical aspects of your gardening challenges, I trained as an agronomist many decades ago however applied them daily, up to this day. I live in a natural drought region. If we aren't carefull our wells dry up in late summer. So in spite of farming for a living, we still have to carefully ration our water supply. So we have had to become very careful about how water is being provided. That is when I realized that I had TOO MUCH drainage and had to do exactly the opposite: Let my roses stand over a puddle of wet feet; just like when one waters houseplants with a bottom dish tray! I don't buy easily garden myths that proffusely have prevailed in the mainly untrained gardeners world. The dissadvantage for any one like you, who is contending trying to make a myth became a reality, can easily lead to considerable expense, effort ,and time and reach nowhere. The only way out of it is understanding the basics of how your unique yard operates and then adapt your projects so that everything reaches fruition. Better understanding a rose bush in your setting. What are its basic needs then see how you are going to provide for them. If you haven't got enough water to irrigate conventionally, then you have to save up your water limiting to only the water that the bush needs to evapotranspirate. No water should be wasted for underground percolation. If you do thus, your watering needs can be adjusted by building reservoirs to catch your winter rains and keep as many bushes as you stored water can provide. Kindly. Arturo
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#10 of 10 posted
25 JUN 21 by
 raingreen
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Thank you Arturo!!! Yes, will PM you if I have any questions. You're the best, Nate
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I've got three MariaCallas growing here. The colour is so vividly striking that it outstands most other roses that grow nearby. It has a wonderful but not strong fragrance here in the begining of the season. I'll check again later. Two of my bushes are already 34 years old. They survived everything. Would one call that a fussy rose? They survived the -20ºC winter unscathed with no protection. They get no supplemental water during our dry summers. No even a adequate pruning...No spraying either. The young plant which I bought three years ago did suffer from my recent very late spring freeze. So yes it may require care just initially. All in all I'm more than happy to have multiples of it amongst my almost 400 bush collection.
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Is it possible to grow this rose from seed? Is your rose grafted on briar or root-related rose?
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Unfortunately not. Any seedling from it would not be a true Clg. Crimson Glory, however it will probably have many of its traits. One of its descendants mentioned here seems to be the result of a chance cross seedling. See Lauren Elizabeth https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.74559.0. However nothings stops you from trying out any seed and discover for yourself if its worthy keeping. If you are patient then you might discover some unexpected surprises.
Arturo
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Thank you for you explanation. I knew that info, but you gave the foto of seeds, so I decided that I've missed smth.
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#2 of 4 posted
22 JUN 20 by
jedmar
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The rose is grafted. As Arturo Tarak states, it is not possible to grow any rose cultivar from seed. Each seed in any hip is a unique combination of genes. You can get single and double roses from the same hip, and different colours too!
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Thank you, this is very interesting information.
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