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I wonder if the Grafin or her family gave permission for "her" rose to be re-named for a horse. Or if they were asked.
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#1 of 10 posted
12 MAR 19 by
 HubertG
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Lol, I don't how rights for renaming roses for other countries work, but I do prefer the name 'Black Caviar' to the original German one.
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I looked up the Grafin on g**gle - think she deserved a rose more than the horse did. Unless you won lots of money on it!
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#3 of 10 posted
12 MAR 19 by
HubertG
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True, she did. However, Black Caviar is still easier to say.
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I'm sure the original German name flows quite nicely if you are German, but I'm equally sure her family didn't use her full title every time they referred to her. Just call it "Astrid" for short. ;)
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#5 of 10 posted
6 JUN 21 by
joekoel
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what is the actual variety name ie the German one
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Astrid Gräfin von Hardenberg.
Or, Nuit de Chine.
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#8 of 10 posted
6 JUN 21 by
joekoel
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Thanks Margaret but I think the 2 names you gave are only trademarks. I did find the actual name which is TAN97150. The actual variety names are now called ''codes'' .Variety names are now a joke . Roses become known by their trademarks which in reality makes them invalid Eg Iceberg started as a trademark but became so generically used (ie became the identity) that it is now an alternative variety name
The actual variety name is 'Korbin' but yes who would know it by this name !
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Different "trade" names are for individual markets and whatever additional royalties associated with them and rights to use said name. That's why some have multiple (and therefore confusing names). Especially if names are translated for local languages or changed for market suitability. The code registration name is for verification of identity to ensure the proper one is sold. There's nothing actually "illegitimate" about any of the names used for sale.
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#6 of 10 posted
6 JUN 21 by
joekoel
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Hi Hubert They simply use a trademark to identify the rose ( this is invalid use ie generic use of a trademark) which is wrong but they get away with it
There are cases though where the trademark through natural attrition rightfully becomes an alternative variety name ( ie synonym)
How many of you out there realise that Iceberg began as a trademark but is now far better known as the variety name than 'Korbin' ie it was so heavily misused it became an invalid trademark
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#4 of 10 posted
26 JAN 21 by
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Initial post
23 DEC 17 by
Curdle
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Probably far too soon to make any sort of statement at all about this rose, but as it seems to be being sold in every Bunnings store this year, and I have one, here it goes. Bought as a potted bareroot from local Bunnings store in June/July this year (Aus winter 2017), so its not old enough to say anything much about yet. I dont use fungicides or sprays at all, so its survival of the fittest here. Has been a bit of blackspot on old post spring leaves, so its looking a bit naked legged right now, but new growth is continuing, and it has remained completely mildew free. Flowers are pleasantly scented, but not overwhelmingly fragrant ; no balling, and they dont seem to be affected by the weird hot/cold weather sudden spurts of rain that make up a Melbourne spring. Seems to be a slow but steady, twiggy/shrubby sort of grower. Bloom colour is more mid pink with blue undertones than dark pink.
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Does the label have a breeder code on it? If it was bred by Rankins, it would start with RAN.
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Rankin’s Roses are part of a group of nurseries who call themselves collectively, Rose Introducers of Australia. They almost never disclose the codes, although Treloars are very good with the codes. Rankins and Landsdale are difficult with codes.
Knight's Roses
Swane's Nurseries
David Austin Roses
Corporate Roses
Roses & Friends
Treloar Roses
Rankin's Roses
Landsdale Rose Gardens
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#5 of 6 posted
27 APR 21 by
joekoel
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Hi Patricia I have come up with this info from PALATINE ROSES in Canada
Rose Name Mother and Child I can only presume that this is a variety name because Trademarks CANNOT be variety names ie name of the rose (as above)
Other names JAL25-3-12, JALaroma
Breeder Jalbert 2015
Rose names in Australia are mainly badly used ie genericised trademarks...its all quite farcical
Your list of nurseries is lets say Interesting
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Thank you joekoel. I have merged ‘Mother and Child’ with ‘Mothers and Children’ JALaroma. Appreciate your detective work.
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#3 of 6 posted
31 DEC 17 by
Curdle
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I seem to have lost the original tag (rather annoying, I usually keep them). But it didnt have a breeder code; thats always the first thing I check before buying a new release rose, so I can look it up here!. As the advertising really emphasised the disease resistance, thought I would give it a try, even if I couldnt get any other info.
Should be going to Bunnings in the next few days so I'll try to get a pic of a tag for the record.
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Thank you Curdle. That would be excellent.
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how can this be recognised as Mother and Child when Rankins claim this as a trademark . Trademarks are not variety name
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I see that the so called ''Registration Name'' for a particular rose is MEIviolin .I presume that this is the variety name
The ''Exhibition Name'' is Pierre de Ronsard R ...so when the rose is exhibited it is known by its trademark
Is this because people dont know it by its variety name? Im trying to understand how it all works
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#1 of 1 posted
2 DEC 19 by
jedmar
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You can find more Information about registered code names and trde names in the following article:
https://www.finegardening.com/article/what-do-those-code-names-on-roses-mean-and-are-they-useful
"Exhibition Name" is a construct applied in USA by the American Rose Society. It Shows which trade Name you have to use if you Show this particular rose in one of the rose exhibitions in America. The Exhibition Name is not relevant in Europe for example. Trade names are for Marketing purposes and can be different for the same rose from country to country.
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