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perhaps souv. de mme. sablayrolles?
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#1 of 8 posted
15 MAY 08 by
 Cass
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That is an interesting possibility. The plant requires a warm climate to perform well on its own roots. In the hot South, it is vigorous and lovely. My own plant has been given away, with the hope it will find a climate it likes.
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#2 of 8 posted
10 SEP 08 by
kai-eric
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dear cass,
i'm right confused.
there is no carmine border to the blooms. meanawhile i see some similarities to isabelle nabonnand which is blooming right near thomasville.
do you have any informations, that isabelle nabonnand might have been imported to us in the 19th century?
wishful thx
kai-eric
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#3 of 8 posted
10 SEP 08 by
Cass
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Hi, Kai-Eric,
I haven't found any references yet that show Isabelle Nabonnand in the USA, but now I am checking for the name misspelled as "Isabella Nabonnand," and I am finding some references. I agree that the resemblance of "Thomasville Old Gold" to Isabelle Nabonnand is striking!
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#4 of 8 posted
11 SEP 08 by
kai-eric
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hello cass,
he're some more roses in europe which are right similar.:souvenir de gilbert nabonnand and clementina carbonieri.
isabella seems to be faintly different but shows often the same mustard to corn-yellow nub. maybe thomasville has more informal appearence.
would you please check the pictures i've inserted with the a.m. items...
thankfully
kai-eric
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#5 of 8 posted
11 SEP 08 by
Cass
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Thanks! Clementina Carbonieri is well known to Vintage Gardens, where "Thomasville Old Gold" is sold. I don't think they are the same. Souvenir de Gilbert Nabonnand isn't sold in North America, to my knowledge.
I found "Thomasville Old Gold" to be a weak and difficult plant that did not like my cool climate garden. Now that my garden is in a hot location, I think it would grow better. Good luck in your quest. I do like the look of Isabelle Nabonnand as a possibility. It was very widely grown and used.
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Cass, Gilbert Nabonnand was listed in Theodosia Shepherd's Ventura by the Sea nursery in Ventura CA in either the 1898 or 1913 catalogs. The other possibilities listed here were not, nor were they listed in the ROYAT or other archival nursery listings I have had access to.
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Virtually every variety of rose grown in Europe was at one time imported into the USA.Varieties no longer available in this country were as late at the 1950's still available and recommended in garden books,"Lady Roberts" being an example.
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#7 of 8 posted
1 DEC 08 by
kai-eric
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thank you, edalweber!
certainly most teas have had their roots in europe,some of them possessing names which they lost by time and accident,
i'm wondering that 'thomasville old gold' which is such an amazing plant and thus unmistakable, has never revealed its identity.
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Garden Party is as healthy and tough rose as you could ask for.It grows very well either grafted or own root.First one I had was bought at Home Depot for a dollar clearance sale at end of season, with roots in plastic wrap. Despite that it grew well. I planted it deep so it developed own roots.Ones I have now were own root from Roses Unlimited.Very rapid growth. Even grows well in semi-shade.
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#1 of 1 posted
8 OCT 10 by
Penelope
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I agree. Mine only revcieve 4 hours or so of direct sunlight and have grown to 5 ft in their first year.
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Basically a trouble free plant.Grows very well on own roots. No disease problems.Extremely vigorous. Highly recommended for the South. Available from Roses Unlimited.
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Agree. I took cuttings in 2000 from the old school site in Yornup, Western Australia, of an old rose which turned out to be ‘Sunny South’. The school was relocated to Bridgetown in 1996 in anticipation of the construction of a heritage precinct which never eventuated. Ironically, the heritage rose still stands resolute in the empty school grounds, never fed, never watered, but still smiling and flowering at passing cars.
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How tall would you say the old Yornup 'Sunny South' is Patricia?
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Uuum... I haven't passed by there in a long time, but I would say 8 or 9 feet high.
Here is my ten year old clone of it, on its own roots. Mine is 8 feet - about (snake tracks in the dust nearby!)
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This is a nice healthy and vigorous plant,basically trouble free. Makes a good pot plant.If you like the flower, you can't go wrong.
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