HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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I know don Juan is supposed to be fragrant.... but for some reason the one I purchased has very little scent. What would cause this? bad genes? the weather? soil type?
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#1 of 4 posted
9 JAN 13 by
Meryl
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I found the same thing but the cause turned out to be my sense of smell. I have no difficulty appreciating the typical red-rose fragrance of roses like Mr Lincoln but my nose seems not to recognise some important chemical component of Don Juan's scent. The flowers of my Don Juan are highly perfumed according to some friends but very indifferent to my nose. Just a suggestion. In your case, the cause may be quite otherwise.
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thanks for the reply. I also heard "climate change" is causing roses to not be as fragrant as in past decades. who knows for sure?
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Being oils and alcohols, fragrance can often be undetectable, not only due to the individual nose's ability to perceive them, but also due to climatic conditions. Too hot, too dry, too windy, too cold or too wet and they may evaporate and blow away quickly, or not even evaporate at all. Like when you apply your cologne. Sometimes, you can smell it for hours. Others, it dissipates nearly immediately after you put it on. You might try cutting opening buds to bring indoors to fully open. In the house, the air is much more still than outdoors. Often, the humidity is higher unless you dehumdify it and it can be warmer than outdoors. This has often permitted "unscented" blooms to be appreciated for their scent. Gene Boerner, the famed breeder for J&P, often tested for fragrance in his seedlings by putting blooms under his hat on his head where they would be warm and humid. I grew Brown Velvet for years, never appreciating its scent, until a friend wrote to be brag on what a wonderful scent it had. I opened some indoors and found they did smell quite good. If you still can't smell them opened indoors and in other seasons, perhaps it is your sniffer, allergies or perhaps the effects of some medication you might be taking? Anti histamines knock out my sense of smell and much of my sense of taste. Then, there are some scents and tastes I am simply immune to. Tropicana has been touted for decades as having a rich scent of ripe raspberries, though it is "green and wet" to me. The scent of Tea in roses smells like clean Tupperware with Orthene, definitely not a desirable scent to my nose!
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I can smell the fragrance of Don Juan and Firefighter but absolutely no scent at all from the big reds, Papa Meilland, Mr. Lincoln, Oklahoma,Crimson Glory. So strange!
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Initial post
10 JAN 16 by
Meryl
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I just came looking for a rose named "Angel Wings" and was interested to read Simon's comment that he found the seed on eBay. I came looking because I was browsing Royston Petrie's seed catalogue and came across an entry for Rosa Chinensis Angel Wings. Royston Petrie may be the original supplier and perhaps able to provide more information about this rose's origin.
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Hi Meryl,
Angel Wings is a generic name given to a group of roses that have little to do with chinensis and more to do with multiflora nana. Having germinated quite a few of these roses now I can clearly see the multiflora influence. The name I have given this seedling is a nick name and not a registered name.
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#2 of 5 posted
30 MAR 16 by
Meryl
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Yes, Simon. I'm familiar with this group of roses. Did you see Patricia Routley's article "Rose Marsh" in the Winter 2013 issue of the Journal of Heritage Roses in Australia? It dealt with these roses of which I have several. As you said of your Angel Wings, they make fantastic garden shrubs. I would dearly like a cutting of your beautiful little white. I know how busy you are but any chance? I'd be more than happy to transfer funds to cover the cost. I doubt I have anything sufficiently out-of-the-way nowadays to tempt you to a swap.
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Simon, do you think your Angel Wings seeds could have been a selfed R. multiflora nana? It looks very similar to my rose from Katie Spriggs that I have thought was R. multiflora nana. Photos are on HelpMeFind.
Interesting that you Meryl, and Simon both have "Rose Marsh' and Simon has actually grown a seed or two from it. I have added that mouthful of a reference.
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#4 of 5 posted
31 MAR 16 by
Meryl
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Thank you for posting the reference, Patricia. I looked for it on helpmefind before replying to Simon and was disappointed not to find it.
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#5 of 5 posted
24 SEP 19 by
 Plazbo
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I bought 5grams from RPSeeds. Given the apparent variability of the seed strain and looking to add better diploid juvenile blooming seed setters that are potentially thornless and of smaller stature (need to minify some species, chinesis and tea types.) I planted all of them...easily over 200, germination rate is quite high. In a month or two will have more info.
-edit- 10 Nov 2019
So many are blooming now. The vast majority of them are pale pink singles. Still too small to determine if they'll stay thornless. There have been a few that are double. 1 so far is double and deep pink approaching red. 1 single that is a bright pink. 1 single medium pink with darker/bluer foliage than the average. 2 had complete powdery mildew (while everything around them is clean). So far none that are true white (just a lot of pale pink that fades to white). Still more to flower, there is some variation as noted above but pale pink single is clearly the norm, very healthy for the most part too. I don't detect fragrance from them but the plants and flowers are quite small so that may change as they get bigger.
Not thornless...not densely thorned but obvious thorns. Will be crossing with completely thornless multiflora and then carrying that forward to the f2 to select thornless juvenile bloomers.
-edit- 9 April 2020
Black Spot (of some type) reared it's head and they all have it to some extent (some worse than others) like mentioned in the '"Angel Wings" selection' entry (separate to this) by Graham D Jenkins-Belohorska, it may be related to them being in pots rather than the ground, given how many of them there are a bunch will be planted out the front in the dead garden beds (rental), a test to see if health improves.
Either way, another thing (health) to select for with the angel wings x thornless multiflora crossings I'll be doing later in the year as thornless multiflora has remained spotless year round, possibly an indicator of it having the Rdr1 and/or Rdr2 genes.
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I have been advised that Meryl Constance, a long-standing member of HelpMeFind, died on March 14, 2018. I met her several times, and always enjoyed seeing her contributions to HelpMeFind. As a small memoire of Meryl, I will attach a photo of a rose her mother grew from seed. Meryl called it 'Molly's Rose' after her mother and sent me wood in 2013. I cut it back sometime in early summer and this photo was taken in mid summer on February 16, 2018. I wish I had told her how very beautiful it was this year.
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I wonder could "Bernice Mitchell's Rose" be 'Sweet Chariot'?
I now have both but it will take me a year to grow 'Sweet Chariot' on to get a comparison.
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I understand that "Bernice Mitchell's Rose" was found in a Riverland garden - can't remember whether NSW or Victoria.
I have it growing about 2.5m away from Sweet Chariot. It started flowering earlier than SC this spring. It pales faster than SC so that it appears to be a paler mauve, but in fact it is the same colour when first open. To me Sweet Chariot's leaves have a slight gloss. I don't pick up more than mild scent from either. I have another plant of "Bernice Mitchell's" in a different part of the garden; it is 4 - 5 years old, own-root and is 2m across and 1.4m high, but I see that others have found Sweet Chariot getting big in a warm climate.
In other words, I can't decide whether it's the same or different.
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Thanks Margaret.
I've planted 'Sweet Chariot' 2-3 metres away from my "Bernice Mitchell's Rose" which is as close as I could get it, so now just have to wait and watch. Understand perfectly about the same or different indecision. We just need another couple of years and then the roses will tell us themselves.
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Comparing them in midwinter, I'm confident that Sweet Chariot and "Bernice Mitchell's" are not the same rose. Sweet Chariot is very densely-stemmed, in the way of minis, and its stems are green. Bernice Mitchell's stems are burgundy, and vastly more prickly.
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#4 of 6 posted
6 JAN 18 by
Meryl
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I have only just come across this quite old discussion about whether Bernice Mitchell's Rose and Sweet Chariot are one and the same. I used to grow Sweet Chariot and found it a martyr to Black Spot. However the Bernice Mitchell's Rose I have now is delightfully healthy.
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'Bernice Mitchell's Rose' has a look of 'De La Grifferaie' about it. http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.269839
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Might be somewhere in the ancestry. The flowers are much smaller, and it repeats very well. But one to admire from the outside - not putting your hands into it.
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