-
-
What is the lineage of Double Delight?
|
REPLY
|
Set the HOW DO I button for help on using HelpMeFind.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#2 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
sunward
Did not see the answer to my Double Delight question and there are no "buttons" to click on to see it..
Thanks , Sandy
|
REPLY
|
Sunward....
You need to go to the rose page for information about the rose. The HOW DO I button explains how to do a basic search to find the rose page.
If you want to see more than the basic lineage, you would need to become a premium-member of HMF. To see a sample of the what the lineage reports look like, open any rose page and click on the linage tab. The reports shown will be for the rose 'Betty Boop'.
Smiles, Lyn
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#4 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
sunward
Thanks Lyn..found it. I do have another question about a rose I've seen in a bouquet, but do not know the name of..It is a chocolate rose..browns, creams and yellows in it..Do you know anything about this rose that I would absolutely love to have? Also, my husband and I are not beginners..we were in the Phoenix Rose Society and won all the top prizes in 3 different shows..We now live in Las Vegas in a condo and do not have room for the 200 roses we had when we lived in Phoenix..there was not a box to check for us, so just checked beginner. I appreciate any help you or another member can give us in the search for the beautiful chocolate rose.
Sandy
|
REPLY
|
Sandy...
You can do an ADVANCED SEARCH by color and if you choose "Any brown" the search results will give you 20 pages of roses to search through for your rose. To narrow the search, you would have to be a premium member of HMF and then you can do an ADVANCED SEARCH on more than one plant characteristic.
Also, Kim Rupert has written a very good article that is in our Ezine archives on coffee colored roses, but several have been introduced since the article was written. It is a good starting place. Just click on EZINE on the navigation bar to the left. Click on the AUTHOR tab and select Kim Rupert and all of the articles we have on HMF that he has written will appear by Title. When you click on the title, you can retrieve the article.
Smiles, Lyn
PS... I have been growing roses for over twenty years and still consider myself a beginner. As Ralph Moore used to say, "As soon as you think you know everything about roses, along comes a rose that makes a liar out of you". I wouldn't dare think of myself as anything but a beginner after hearing him say that ... lol.
|
REPLY
|
Sunward, the original florist rose advertised as chocolate and cream or caramel was Leonidas. Grown outdoors, it is orange, but when grown under strictly controlled conditions, it is brown and cream. You will find it illustrated more in those colors on florist rose sites where it is usually photographed under the controlled conditions it requires to demonstrate them. Photographed out in the open, it's more orange.
There may have been others introduced more recently, such as Coffee Break and Tiramisu, but Leonidas was the original.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#24 of 29 posted
18 JAN 12 by
Jay-Jay
Kim, in the Netherlands, Leonidas is a famous Chocolatier, Bonbonnier. So I can imagine how Meilland named that rose. See: http://www.leonidas.com/pralines?id=INTRO
|
REPLY
|
Thanks Jay Jay. I often search such names and terms to discover the "why" behind them but hadn't made it to this one yet. Now, it makes perfect sense! Thanks!
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#18 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
sunward
Ok..new topic of confusion..the rose I bought was packaged as Double Delight turns out the tag says it is Dream Come True...grrrrr...and for some reason I can't get the lineage on it..What's up with that? What's the odds of the tag being wrong? Also it was bought in Dec.. and is now leafing out beautifully so I can't take it back....
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#19 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
Jay-Jay
The American breeder apparently played the lottery with his roses pollen....... and he won! (this rose: "Dream Come True")
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#20 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
RoseBlush
Jay-jay... you are a hoot ! I'll send you a PM to get specifics, so that I can help with the ADVANCED SEARCH... this thread is getting too complicated
Sandy,
btw... Welcome to HMF.
When you go to the SEARCH page, click on the red HELP button. You will see that there are four different ways to search the HMF database for a rose.
The default is BEST MATCH and generally will take you right to the rose you are researching. Next you can use BEGINS WITH. When I entered "Dream c" in the search filed, 'Dream Come True' came up on the search results list. Using the CONTAINS button and entering "m come" in the search field, 'Dream Come True' came up on the search results list. Using the ENDS WITH and entering "e true" in the search field, 'Dream Come True' came up on the search results list.
The lineage is reported on the rose page. The source of lineage is in the REFERENCES ... just click on that tab and in the patent, you can view the patent by clicking on the button in that field.
Hope this helps.
Smiles, Lyn
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#23 of 29 posted
18 JAN 12 by
Jay-Jay
Hello Lyn, I do not know what a hoot is, but it doesn't seem very positive to me. I only reacted on the phrase of Sandy (in reply 18 of 19...a new topic): "..the rose I bought was packaged as Double Delight turns out the tag says it is Dream Come True...grrrrr...and for some reason I can't get the lineage on it..What's up with that?" So my reaction isn't that wrong, when You look at: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.40966.1 and You can read this:
BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION
This invention relates to a new and distinct variety of Grandiflora Rose. The seed parent and the pollen parent of the variety are unknown. Parentage: Unknown × Unknown
Notes: The parentage in the US Patent # 20633 differs from the parentage published by the American Rose Society. See REFERENCES. The breeder says that he mixes pollens, so the pollen parent could be any of about 300 roses he uses. At the time he made the cross that produced this plant, he did not keep records of seed parents, but he thinks the seed parent might have been 'Heart of Gold' (McGredy).
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#25 of 29 posted
18 JAN 12 by
RoseBlush
Hi Jay-Jay... no "a hoot" is not a negative. Literal translation to Dutch is "toeteren". In a way it's saying "You make me laugh with a smile". I love your participation on the Q & A and your information is right on the mark, or as the British say, "spot on". Sometimes, I do forget that those from other countries will not understand my Americanisms.
Sorry, if you felt bad even for a moment.
Smiles,
Lyn
|
REPLY
|
Good morning Jay Jay, yes, Lyn was saying she found you positively entertaining (actually, I do, too, and we're both big "fans" of yours!). I can understand the possible confusion, but please believe me. I've known her for many years and saying or doing something deliberately offensive to someone is not who Lyn chooses to be, so you can believe her! Sometimes, the various uses of "common" words can be quite ticklish. There is a word for a lavatorial function which has made its way into common usage world wide, beginning with a "p". An Irish friend told me many years ago, "Well, I'm off as I'm quite pi@@ed!" He startled me as I wasn't aware of having done anything to anger him, so I asked, He said, "I'm not angry, I'm drunk!"
Yes, I agree with her, thank you for your wonderful participation here on HMF! You dig up information seemingly from thin air, neither of us had been able to find, and you share it in such a delightfully entertaining way. You offer a perspective quite different from ours, enabling us to see and understand things more "globally", enriching our experience and lives. Thank you!
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#28 of 29 posted
18 JAN 12 by
Jay-Jay
You're too kind Kim...and yes, Lyn and I PM'd about this. And no I wasn't thinking she was offending me,...but what those Americans juggle with english words... Best regards from a Dutch owl.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#7 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
sunward
Hi,
I went to Kim Ruperts site and checked on all his chocolate colored roses, but that rose was not among them. None of them were actually brown..they were russet..the one I am looking for is truly brown and cream. If anyone has any suggestions as to where I can find it, please let me know.
Thanks, Sandy
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#8 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
Jay-Jay
Most possibly it's a florist rose; you might search with that criterium?!
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#9 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
sunward
Great idea..so do I contact a florist and see what they have to say..I'm sure you are right..I never knew florist roses were different..
Thank You So Much, Sandy
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#10 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
RoseBlush
Sandy........
Click on ADVANCED SEARCH on the navigation bar. Click on CLASS and check the box for FLORIST. Click continue. Click Search.
You can also do an ADVANCED SEARCH by color and select russet as your search criteria.
All of the florist roses with that class designation in the HMF database will appear in the search results.
Smiles, Lyn
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#12 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
Jay-Jay
That's always okay, but the advanced search didn't work for this particular question!
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#14 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
RoseBlush
Hi Jay-Jay........
In a sense you are correct, most florist roses do not have a lot of information and are not registered through the usual means, but many are patented. The volunteers of HMF are continuously adding new patented roses to the database. In the patents for many florist roses, the roses are classified as a hybrid tea, so if you do an ADVANCED SEARCH for CLASS selecting both "Florist Rose" and "Hybrid Tea" the search results come up with more results.
HMF is always growing and adding new roses, so some of the current florist roses on the market may not have been added to the database ... yet.
Smiles, Lyn
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#16 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
Jay-Jay
Hi Lyn, thanks for the reply, but most of the times the advanced search didn't work for me: Too many search criteria (says HMF) or too many and very different roses to look after if they match the search that was broadened with less criteria. And chocolate is until now not amongst the choice of browns!
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#13 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
RoseBlush
Landperson........
Non-premium members can search on one criteria at a time. To narrow search results, it helps to search by more than one criteria. For example non-premium members can search by roses by class and the search results can be several pages long. If a second and even a third criteria is added to the search, the search list becomes more targeted and shorter.
Only premium members of HMF can search by more than one criteria at a time.
Smiles, Lyn
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#17 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
sunward
Hi,
There are 752 pages to go through in the class/florist link..most of them have no pictures so far..I was on page 26 and was still in the "A's"..lol..may just opt to go to a florist and ask them.. Thanks so much for all the input..it is truly appreciated..
Sandy
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#21 of 29 posted
17 JAN 12 by
RoseBlush
Sandy.......
752 pages ! YES ! I didn't realize that we had managed to get that many florist roses in the database .... many more to be added..... 'o)
This is why I suggested that you consider becoming a premium member of HMF because you can add more criteria to your search and narrow the search results. As, Jay-Jay mentioned above, it is possible to have too many criteria, but having more than one does narrow the search.
Photos are uploaded to HMF by site users, so it makes sense that many of roses in the florist rose class will not have photos in the HMF database. Most of the photos on the sites are grown in members' gardens or public gardens where members have taken photos and shared them with the HMF community. Some nurseries also provide photos.
You can also do a TEXT SEARCH in the EZINE and any article with the word "florist" will come up.
HMF is an ever-changing wonderful compilation of rose information on many different levels.
Smiles, Lyn
|
REPLY
|
Sandy, the criteria for selecting a florist rose varies greatly from that for general garden roses. They have to repeat faster, in lower light and heat; creating more regular stem length; bud and flower size and last longer when cut. They have to be much more durable, being able to be handled and processed as well as stand up to shipping to their destinations where they will be further handled and processed before storage, then endure the indignities of being handled and shipped further to the recipients and last a reasonable length of time once received. VERY few of our garden roses would meet those requirements.
We view them as viable garden plants, providing beauty, and hopefully, fragrance for reasonable periods with as little "fuss" as possible. Florists view them as "produce", required to produce sufficient crops of cut flowers to pay the enormous costs associated with their production. Because the conditions under which they have to be grown are much more conducive to pests and diseases than the average garden, they must realistically be sprayed against them regularly, so what we consider "disease resistance" is something quite different to what floral producers require. These are just a few of the reasons why many (if not most) "florist roses" produce such questionable garden plants.
Because what makes them good for floral production is very much what makes them good for exhibition use, quite a few of them are suitable for exhibitors, who are usually much more likely to spray their roses against problems than many "regular gardeners" are, particularly those in more benign climates. While they are 'roses', they have been bred and selected for far different conditions.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#30 of 29 posted
18 JAN 12 by
sunward
Thank you all for your input..I'm truly impressed with the knowledge you impart..I am going to try to find the best place to order Leonidas..although the picture I saw of it looked more like a red blend..I will try to raise it in the ideal conditions it needs to turn chocolate and cream.
Thanks Again, Sandy
P.S. I tried to use my name as a contact, but Sandy was already taken...waaaaa
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#31 of 29 posted
18 JAN 12 by
RoseBlush
Hi again, Sandy,
I am going to encourage you to go to the 'Leonidas' rose page and click through the tabs at the top of the page. There are several photos under the PHOTOS tab which probably show the rose to be more orange when grown in gardens rather than greenhouse. The REFERENCES tab has a few published references which describe the brownish color you are seeking. The COMMENTS tab is information site users have shared with the HMF rose community about their experience with the rose. The BUY FROM lists nurseries which have indicated that they carry this rose in their inventory.
Smiles, Lyn
|
REPLY
|
Sandy, if you "google" "rosa leonidas, you will come up with the "proper" images they want you to see. You used to be able to see them (as well as for Black Baccara) on the Star Roses on line catalog, but they must have gotten smart that they are NOT good garden plants and don't seem to offer them anymore. Good luck trying to get it brown and caramel. That will take some doing! Kim
|
REPLY
|
|