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'Lady Mary Fitzwilliam' rose Reviews & Comments
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If, as 'tis said, this rose is named after Lady Mary Wentworth-Fitzwilliam (January 9, 1845–July 1, 1921), that lady had married Hugh Le Despenser Boscawen on May 23, 1872, and was still married to that gentleman at the time of the introduction of the rose (and indeed continued so to his death in 1908), and so was, at the time the rose was introduced, Lady Mary Boscawen. It seems strange to be dubbing the rose after her pre-married name of a decade and more earlier; but perhaps those more familiar with the traditions and ways of the British aristocracy than I could favor us with an opinion.
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#1 of 9 posted
3 days ago by
 jedmar
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Is it possible that the seedling was named 'Lady Mary Fitzwilliam' on or prior to her marriage in 1872, but officially launched only 10 years later?
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#2 of 9 posted
3 days ago by
Lee H.
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I do not find a title associated with Mr. Boscawen, so he may have been a commoner. It may have been a social courtesy to continue calling her by her noble title, although she may no longer have been legally entitled to it.
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#3 of 9 posted
3 days ago by
odinthor
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Boscawen was the son (third child, second son) of a Viscount, which made him an "Honourable" rather than a "Lord," so yes you could be right that the lady in question could revert name-wise to her original higher noble title; I don't know what the practice is in aristocratic circles.
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#4 of 9 posted
2 days ago by
HubertG
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I think it's more likely that the Lady Mary Fitzwilliam in question is Lady Mary Butler, born Mary Grace Louisa Butler, daughter to John Butler, 2nd Marquess of Ormonde and his wife Frances. She was born in Kilkenny, Ireland in 1846 and died in Malton, Yorkshire in 1929. She married on 11 July 1877 the Hon. Henry Fitzwilliam, the brother of the lady discussed in the prior posts, who was the second son to the 6th Earl Fitzwilliam, and also an M.P.
Unless I'm mistaken, as the daughter of a marquess who married a lesser son of an earl she was entitled to retain her first name in her courtesy title after her marriage, so she was styled Lady Mary Fitzwilliam rather than Lady Henry Fitzwilliam, although I admit I'm a little confused regarding this courtesy usage since he was also an M.P.
There's a photo of a Lady Mary Fitzwilliam facing page 152 in the memoirs 'Looking Back' by Sir Seymour Fortescue. Taken onboard the HMS Surprise, included in the photo is the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh, and it must date from 1886-87, the years that Fortescue was First-Lieutenant of the 'Surprise'. Although I can't be certain that this is the Lady Mary the rose was named for, the fact that the family had close royal social connections makes it likely in my opinion - Lady Mary's mother the 2nd Marchioness of Ormonde was lady-in-waiting to Queen Adelaide from 1844 to 1849, and Queen Adelaide was the godmother to Lady Mary's brother James (who became the 3rd Marquess of Ormonde), and Lady Mary Butler herself was one of the bridesmaids at Princess Louise's wedding in 1871.
I note that the rose 'Lady Mary Fitzwilliam', although released in 1882, was already exhibited in 1880 under that name which is only 3 years after Lady Mary Butler's marriage. I'm not sure if there is any personal connection to Bennett but the timing at least is fitting.
There may still be some other Lady Mary Fitzwilliam possibility out there but this is the most likely candidate, in my opinion.
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#5 of 9 posted
yesterday by
odinthor
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Excellent research! Thanks so much.
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#6 of 9 posted
yesterday by
Lee H.
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I note that the American Rose Annual of 1952 seems to largely agree with HubertG, but I suspect a mistake with the hybridizer mentioned.
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#7 of 9 posted
today by
HubertG
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Thank you, odinthor, you're welcome.
I hadn't seen that excerpt from the American Rose Annual, Lee H., so thanks for posting it as it pretty much confirms what I'd suggested.
After I had posted above, I looked at other roses from Bennett and realised that there are a number named for members of that same extended family.
'Viscountess Falmouth' introduced in 1879 was named for Mary, the 6th Viscountess Falmouth (1822-1891) who had married Evelyn Boscawen (1819-1889), who succeeded to the title in 1852. Their son was the Hon. Hugh le Despencer, the one discussed in the first post who had married in 1872 the Lady Mary Fitzwilliam (not the rose LMF), daughter of the 6th Earl Fitzwilliam.
Another Bennett rose, this one released posthumously, was 'Lady Henry Grosvenor'. The timing of its naming, and release about 1892 after Bennett's death in 1890 meant that it had to be named for the first wife of Lord Henry George Grosvenor, born Dora Mina Erskine-Wemyss in 1856 and who died in Dec 1894 two days after giving birth to their third child.
That Henry Grosvenor was the 3rd son of Hugh Grosvenor, 1st Duke of Westminster (1825-1899) and his first wife Constance, née Leveson Gower, (1834-1880), and so it was his mother for whom Bennett's 1879 'Duchess of Westminster' was named. The 1st Duke of Westminster remarried in 1882.
And of course the Westminsters' daughter Lady Elizabeth Harriet Grosvenor (1856-1928) married James Butler, the 3rd Marquess of Ormonde who was the brother of our Lady Mary Fitzwilliam for whom the rose was named.
I hope that's clear :-). There may still be other family relationships with other Bennett roses that I haven't seen yet: I'm not sure.
Anyway, it appears that the family was clearly on pretty good terms with Bennett to accept his offerings, and all of it does confirm to me that Lady Mary Fitzwilliam née Butler (1846-1929) is the correct candidate for the 'Lady Mary Fitzwilliam' rose.
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#8 of 9 posted
today by
jedmar
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Reference added, thank you! The mention of Henry Shepard as breeder is strange. Doesn't ring a bell, at all. This text was repeated in "The Rose Annual" of 1956, page 48. If someone has this volume, could you please check if it is Shepard who is mentioned, or corrected to Bennett?
Edit: Bennett's nursery was in Shepperton.
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Rose annual 1956: p. 48 says that Lady Mary was born in England in 1846, grand-daughter of the Duke of Ormonde, and died in 1929."Royal permission and special warrant was received in 1882 by Henry Shepard, hybridizer of this rose, to name it after this great English lady."
Further down the page it says that Mme Caroline Testout was a French seamstress with an establishment in London.
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