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"Chapel Tea" rose Reviews & Comments
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I am wondering if "Range View Pink Tea" might be 'Belle Emilie' which was on a circa 1860 Evandale Nursery catalogue (Evandale Nursery was within 1km of the family property where the rose was found growing). Also previously listed on this listing was 'Devoniensis' which was also found on this property 100ks NE of Adelaide, South Australia.
I also found the following on Trove on 'Belle Emilie': https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20131211003619/http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/122951/20131211-0821/hortuscamden.com/plants/print/rosa-belle-emilie.html
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'Belle Emilie' was certainly available from South Australian nurseries Pat. I have added a couple of more references.
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Thank you so much Patricia. I am getting kind of excited that this might be its name.
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I am too. It certainly sounds right so far.
I have just added a photo of "Mystery Cream Tea" in my garden today. Not half as vigorous as yours but I am so happy to have it. It is feminine and delicate and possibly so very old.
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Some people have noted a likeness to Devoniensis 1838. I don’t see that. For me ‘Devoniensis is flat, with many pleated petals.
I see a likeness to the nodding rose which came as “Agnes Smith” from Araluen in 2004. This rose has paled from pink to cream in a more sunny position. However there is still more pink in it than in “Mystery Cream Tea” I think the prickles of "Agnes Smith" are smaller too. See my “Agnes Smith” photo 460-000a
[Later edit - I have just realised that in 2017 I planted another bush of “Agnes Smith” from Araluen, right next door to “Mystery Cream Tea”.]
I also see a likeness in the bush (but not the bloom) of the fragile ‘Rival de Paestum’ 1839
I note ‘Belle Emilie’ was 1829..
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I'm awake too early, but 'Innocente Pirola' was a popular rose that was sometimes compared to 'Devoniensis'... only, was it popular in Oz?
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Innocent and feminine it ain't, with those prickles.
I've received what I think is this rose as Niphetos, but it isn't that either.
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Ha! So not 'IP', then...
How does it compare to 'Catherine Mermet' and her sports?
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Personally I feel that the rose is an earlier rose than Devoniensis. Why? It is lighter weight and bush overall, branches thinner, petal substance is thinner and it does not have the more ordered arrangement of flower form and the overall impression is earlier in development.
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Wouldn't it be loverly if 'La Sylphide' isn't actually extinct? Another oldie that might deserve a look-see is 'Elise Sauvage'.
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'Innocente Pirola' was in several Australian Rose Catalogues and gardens and after reading references and seeing photos on HMF I am wondering.
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Pat, I take it that you have seen the refs in COMMENTS. I’ll move them soon. (I am in my summer regime of out there at first light and in the cool. I am just in for a breakfast break)
Ellen Perman did another painting of ‘Innocente Pirola’ and it seems rather too upright. Search the internet for
innocent Pirola Ellen Perman
and you should find it. The URL was one of those impossibly long ones.
There is also something in the refs about the bud unscrolling,
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Comparison photos of "Range View Pink Tea" and 'Devoniensis' added today.
Plus a bush photo
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I've been growing this rose for some time now and can discount 'Mlle de Sombreuil' and
'Mme. Melanie Willermoz' as possible ID's as I have both of these and they are wildly different
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Either this rose or Devoniensis was sold in Aus for a while as Niphetos, and I suspect still is. We don't have a true Niphetos in Aus to compare it with, but it isn't that.
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The 2016 reference for 'Chromatella' may be of interest.
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Reply
#4 of 7 posted
8 JUN 19 by
 HubertG
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I'm wondering whether 'Innocente Pirola' might be a serious contender for this rose's real identity. Everything about the coloured 'The Garden' illustration seems to match, from the large thorns, the flower colour, the pink-blushed buds, the loose clusters and particularly the foliage. The Wright photograph foliage looks rather wilted, so it's hard to say. The photo of a more high-centred bud seems to differ a bit from the most of the "Mystery Cream Tea" photos here, but there are a few blooms I can see that hint at a this shape. The photo of the huge standard of 'Innocente Pirola' is interesting because there are conflicting references to the vigour of 'Innocente Pirola'. When I grew "Mystery Cream Tea" (as "Susan Irvine's Cream Tea") years ago in a pot, it was fairly compact and twiggy but put on regular growth, so It might have become large had I persisted with it. Just some food for thought.
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Excellent suggestion HubertG. I’ve added ‘Innocente Pirola’ to the possibles box and will search my Australian literature today to see what I can find.
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I found a bit on 'Innocente Pirola' HubertG. It certainly was well known in Australia in the early 1900s. I still think it could be a contender for "Mystery Cream Tea",however, no reference mentioned the typical nodding bloom and I don't think I ever saw my blooms unfolding as the 1910 reference described. The growth on my plant is still low after 15 years.
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Reply
#7 of 7 posted
9 JUN 19 by
HubertG
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Patricia, I'm impressed with your efforts! I was browsing old online papers today and I'm sure I found a reference to nodding blooms on 'Innocente Pirola' but I didn't copy it because of the broken reference section here. I'll try to find it again. I do hope they sort out the reference gremlins soon.
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Good sleuthing both, and Pat.
Nothing innocent about "Mystery Cream Tea" - it bites.
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Could it be 'Mme Bravy'? It has a similar look, and they are both described as strongly fragrant. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who is familiar with both roses.
Virginia
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My "Mystery Cream Tea" has a glandular pedicel and my two Bravy's (came as 'Mme. Bravy' low, and came as 'Comtesse Riza du Park' tall) both have smooth pedicels. Thank you for your interest in our Australian foundlings Virginia.
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After reading the infamous Tea roses book recently, I was particularly interested by the description of this rose. Apart from it just looking good in the pictures, the scent sounds fascinating.
"Fragrance is a strong and sweet Tea, with a sharp undertone, likened by some to Lapsang Souchong."
It would be great if someone would put it into commerce.
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Very similar to Devoniensis. It's been found in several locations across Aus. if you're desperate for one we can grow one from a cutting for you, or send you cuttings. But it's a prickly thing and I haven't chosen to grow it.
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Thank you for the offer. I'm not currently ready to take one on (too many things in pots, which need to go in the ground) but I'll bear it in mind.
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Just checked some more, and Mistydowns are saying they have it for sale (I think this is the same rose). They may have acquired it recently.
http://mistydowns.com.au/plant_display/display/1249-susan-irvines-cream-tea
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Ah, I wondered why I couldn't find it, when my memory said Mistydowns stocked it (and have for quite some time).
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Should their alias for it be added to the list of aliases?
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As far as I understand it, Susan Irvine found “Camnethan Cherry Red” and the cream “Louie Wilson” at Camnethan Homestead. There is a photo of “Louie Wilson” on p74 of her Susan Irvine’s Rose Gardens. This foundling eventually turned out to be either ‘Devoniensis’ or ‘Chromatella’ (sorry I don’t recall which). Susan has said in private correspondence that she knows nothing about “Mystery Cream Tea”, which is a different rose.
Unfortunately when “Chapel Tea” (syn “Mystery Cream Tea”) went into a nursery, it was mislabeled and went out to the public as “Susan Irvine’s Cream Tea”.
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Ok, so same rose, but completely wrong name? Sounds familiar. Anyway, it seems to be available, which is good.
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