as to 'harry kirk' i can help out with some impressions of the plant labelled 'harry kirk' at sangerhausen, in addition to my entries resp.'harry kirk' database
Thank you. The clues to "Fake Perle" extend to “Wood Street Buff-Yellow”, found in Balingup, WA. " Very similar to “Fake Perle” except that the colour is buff-yellow to apricot, and the new growth is even darker."
I've given serious consideration to "Fake Perle" possibly being 'Medea' before. 'Medea' was a rose that seemed to do well in Australia and regularly appeared in the recommended roses list in the papers.
Maybe Dickson's 'Mrs. James Wilson'?? . I know Lockley mentioned this a bit and it doesn't seem to be a rose that really took off in Europe, so maybe the warmer drier weather here in Australia suited this very double rose? Is it fragrant though? 'Mrs James Wilson' was described as well scented.
Maybe another Dickson rose Miss Alice de Rothschild?? That was hailed as a dwarf Marechal Niel. Very double , exhibition style with a Marechal Niel perfume. The colour matches at least.
Or maybe Coquette de Lyon. It was described as 'ranunculus form' which seems to match the open flower, but I just uploaded a photo which shows a reasonably high centred bud which also still matches the opening flower. There is a reference here to how well it grows in California. Also described as good for bedding. Just some more food for thought.
Maybe look at Duchesse de Bragance. It is a seedling of Coquette de Lyon, and had red new foliage and even reddish sepals which seems to be a feature of 'Fake Perle'. Also, the Journal des Roses illustration shows a splash of red on the buds.
Duchesse de Bragance could still be a possibility. I can't find a reference saying that is had a 'renuncule' form, and the only depiction so far really just shows a very double rose, which has probably tested the skill of the artist. Especially too that DdBragance is descibed as having only the occasional thorn.
Judging by the pictures, I think your rose may be a match for our "Giannini Tea" found in the Sierra foothills. Doesn't help with the ID, but if we have it in two countries, we at least know it was once commercially available and not a chance seedling.
Would you post photos of your rose, please? "Fake Perle" has two sources but they were from the same property, so they may have been the same. One was sent to WA as Perle des Jardins. the other was labelled Marechal Niel at Ruston's roses; hence the two study names, "Fake Perle" and "David's Not Marechal Niel". I've had an own-root plants for several years. So far it is low-growing for a tea, and spreading; and very floriferous.
Here's a link to some pictures I have online. I'm sure there are more, which I'll look for, but these show some plant details. https://photos.app.goo.gl/3EfgWGCXMnpf7zEG3
Might be worth posting just one at a time, and see if that works. I have a vague memory that there are website security issues with posting multiple links on one message.
Yes, HMF does have a one link per post restriction. AFAIK there are no security problems with multiple links. I suspect they included the restriction more as a deterrent to spammers.
Jill, would you like me to open a page for "Giannini Tea"? That way you can add photos direct to the page. We can always merge "Giannini Tea" and "Fake Perle" later if they are proved to be the same rose.
The Tea Rose book makes this one sound very interesting. Admittedly, one of the problems with the Tea Rose book is that it makes them all sound interesting, which is likely to be bad for one's sanity and wallet if not strictly controlled.
Anyway, it's odd that this Australian foundling is only available from one European nursery, since it seems to have quite a few things going for it. This naturally leads me to wonder what its faults are, since the only one mentioned in the infamous book is that perhaps it wants to flower too much sometimes (the plant that is, obviously the book is not likely to flower, although from the look of some of the photos it wouldn't really be surprising if it did).
Can someone who has grown this rose give an opinion of its pros and cons, and whether they think it is generally worth growing? Also, if it is worth growing, any known sources?
For me, cool wet winters, dry summers, my ten year old plant plant on Fortuniana rootstock is still under half a metre. It is an interesting rose with its very red new foliage and the few blooms are lovely, but I would not call it a garden specimen in my cooler climate.
Sorry, I don't know where you would buy it from in Australia.
There are quite a number of roses in Aus, Teas and others, which have been lost in Europe; a few have been re-introduced to Europe in recent years. My plant is on its own roots, and is low-growing so far, and floriferous. Your best bet with roses that are in Aus but not listed by nurseries on helpmefind is to contact Heritage Roses in Australia in your state, and ask if anyone knows who sells it, or can give you cuttings. That way you don't trip over quarantine restrictions.
