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'Souvenir d'Elise Vardon' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 167-996
most recent 25 JUL HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 25 JUL by odinthor
It may prove useful for folks to have the full English translation of the lengthy and detailed description from the 1854 Choix des Plus Belles Roses (in French in the HMF References section). I excerpted it, in English, in the first two editions of my book The Old Rose Advisor (the much expanded third edition is coming along)--and I'd like to take this opportunity to put it on record that, when I wrote that book originally, the idea at first was just to have the "telling phrases" about all the roses from the sources, much as one would take notes at a lecture, not the whole in bulk; but as time has gone on, I have been filling these out. At any rate, here is the full article:

“Wood heavy, strong; long internodes. The smooth epidermis is, when young, reddish purple and covered with a bloom as we see on certain stone fruits; it then becomes a lighter green. Thorns, fairly numerous, large at the base, pretty long, strongly laterally compressed, straight or slightly recurved, red-purple at first, then light brown. Leaves, somewhat ample, often composed of 5 leaflets, more rarely of three; they are of unequal size, oval, tipped by a distinct point; the terminal one is always larger, all smooth-edged and slightly dentate, [surface] smooth and a slightly yellowish light green, glossy, when growing frequently tinted purple above; beneath, whitish green, having a cottony appearance. The petioles, which are pretty long, are accompanied for about a third of their length with only slightly developed stipules; they are purple-red above, green beneath, where they are armed for their full length, with a certain number of hooked and very sharp prickles. Peduncles thick, long, providing firm support for the flowers, often having at the base one or two stipulary leaves, or one or two foliaceous stipules, and indeed sometimes four or five, which are red-purple and display for their full length some small brownish bristles. Ovaries Fairly large, short, nearly regularly semi-globular, cut horizontally at the tip, light green tinted purple-red and, like the peduncles, bestrewn with small brownish bristles. Buds, fairly large, long, usually solitary at the branch-ends, flesh-pink and maroon-red, the [color of the ] petals showing through as the sepals are opening. Sepals five, slightly foliaceous, green and light red-purple, also bestrewn with small brownish bristles. Flowers large (8–10 cm [about 3.5 inches]), very full, quite regular; outer petals very large, thick, compressed slightly, concave, reflexing strongly, however, at the tip, containing numerous smaller petals, crowded, also concave, but only with difficulty reflexing at the tip, giving the blossom a lightness, the form of an elegant cup, the edges of which are recurved; always opens well, whatever the weather; color, delicate flesh-pink shaded chamois-yellow, becoming a nearly white flesh around the edges; center, a pronounced coppery pink; the petal tips are often a brighter purplish-pink than the petal reverse. Scent, the usual tea-scent, but weaker. The rose of the foregoing description is a quite recent development, not yet having left the nurseries of its breeder, Mr. Marest, horticulturist at Paris. It will only be released to commerce this coming Fall in the present year [1854]. This bush pertains to the series of Bengal Roses, the section of Fragrant Roses commonly called Tea Roses. By its appearance, it seems to be a pure offspring, without alteration, from the Type which has so generously given seed-sowers such a great number of beautiful garden varieties. The one currently under consideration takes a place among the most precious of these varieties, surely a distinguished place, due first to its well-proven hardiness, and then by the great many specimens in the garden of Mr. Marest which have withstood in the open ground the harsh winter of 1853–1854, with none dying; and lastly, by the beauty of its flowers and their lasting qualities in the sun, as well as their likeable colors. The growth of this rose, which is vigorous and easy, assures it a flowering both abundant and prolonged. In short, it is a very precious acquisition for which the horticultural world will owe its gratitude to one of the able and devoted Parisian sowers. Placed under the protection of the name of a young girl, ‘Souvenir d’Elisa Vardon’ offers a touching and symbolic reminder of grace and charm, qualities which it so effectively brings to mind.”
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 25 JUL by jedmar
We added a note to the 1854 reference, thank you!
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Discussion id : 95-247
most recent 6 OCT 16 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 6 OCT 16 by CybeRose
Sustainable Rose Garden (2010)
Edited by Pat Shanley, Peter Kukielski, and Gene Waering

A Close Look at Tea Roses pp. 21-22
Lynne Chapman, Hillary Merrifield and Billy West
A Tea is in commerce around the world today as 'Souvenir d'Elise Vardon'. a rose which early colour descriptions tell us was light straw yellow or yellowish white to delicate light pink.

The rose often sold under this name seems too brightly coloured to match these descriptions, but we know that the colours of Teas can vary. So we needed more to go on, and Paquet and Rouillard provided more in the year it was introduced, describing the peduncles of 'Souvenir d'Elise Vardon' as "showing little brownish hairs along their whole length' and the receptacle also as 'sprinkled with little brownish hairs."

Glands or hairs or both, they are *not* present on the shiny, smooth pedicels of the rose sold as 'Souvenir d'Elise Vardon' today, so careful observations from the 1850s gave us proof that this rose was misidentified. But what was it? Fortunately, the same rose is also in commerce under another name, its correct name, 'Mlle Franziska Kruger', 1879 and, as well as early descriptions matching, we have the proof of identity from a colour sport, 'Blumenschmidt', which occurred in Germany and was released in 1905. Like its parent, it can show a hard green centre which occasionally contains many tiny buds. 'Blumenschmidt' is not available in Australia at the present time, so we were delighted to see fine plants at the Antique Rose Emporium in Texas.
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Discussion id : 35-499
most recent 26 MAY 16 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 12 APR 09 by billy teabag
Many of the roses that are offered under the name 'Souvenir d'Elise Vardon' are in fact 'Mlle Franziska Kruger'.

This is a widespread error of long standing. It is likely that the rose being described by L.A. Wyatt in his article in the 1975 Rose Annual ["the broad outer petals in deep cream gently reflex at the edges while the inner petals are held in a high scroll of light salmon and fawn. Coupled with the deep purple foliage and brown wood...."] was in fact 'Mlle Franziska Kruger'.

The blooms of 'Mlle Franziska Kruger' can vary widely in colour and form, making comparisons difficult, but one characteristic seen regularly on 'Mlle F. Kruger' (and reported regularly in roses posing as 'Souv. d'Elise Vardon') is the green vegetative centre. Other stable characteristics are the mahogany stems and elongated leaflets with impressed veins.
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Reply #1 of 5 posted 19 MAY 09 by Cass
This is exactly right, Billy. I received a nice plant sold as 'Souv. d'Elise Vardon' that shared the following botanical characters with 'Mlle Franziska Kruger,' which I've grown for 5 years: foliage with a tendency to both severe leaf spot and powdery mildew; blooms a combination of light salmon pink, buff yellow and cream; vegetative centers; and mahogany-colored canes. The two plants blooms in cycle. I too believe they are the same cultivar.
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Reply #2 of 5 posted 15 SEP 10 by Matthew 0rwat
I have grown both (although I have since lost Mlle. Franzeska Krueger) and they seem different to me. The bush type is different and MFK has more orange in the bloom than SEV.

I Can't be sure though.
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Reply #3 of 5 posted 23 MAY 16 by John Hook
Hi Billy
Although most roses sold under this name may be MFK, the green vegetative centre is also a characteristic of this rose according to an old ref.


The Rose Book (Shirley Hibberd)
Book (1864) Page(s) 57.
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Reply #4 of 5 posted 24 MAY 16 by billy teabag
Thanks John - Have you ever come across a rose said to be 'Souvenir d'Elise Vardon' that isn't 'Mlle F, Kruger' or one you believe to be the original rose?
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Reply #5 of 5 posted 26 MAY 16 by John Hook
Not really, I've seen some variation to MFK but I reckon this is clonal variation, being grown for multi generations in different climates/soils. I have a rose that matches original descriptions. This was a misnamed tea from L'Hay that they were going to discard but early days. I have doubts about the MFK being correct too though, I would expect a much larger flower and good disease resistance. The rose in commerce isn't typical of the Nabonnands breeding. Of course, this could be a one off and the diseases inherited over time but this is enough to keep an open mind.
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Discussion id : 51-482
most recent 13 MAR 14 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 10 JAN 11 by roseluv
Dear Matt,
Was wondering where you purchased your beauitiful Souv. D'Elise Vardon? Seems like you have a very good plant, one that perhaps isn't Mlle Franziska. Also, is there a good fragrance?

Thanks for your help, & I hope you are still enjoying this rose,
Sincerely,
Sherry, z9b, inland Bay Area, Calif.
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 13 MAR 14 by Matthew 0rwat
I received it from a tea collector in Texas. I now reside in Florida, but the plant is still in my parents garden.
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