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'Sylvestris' rose Reviews & Comments
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The 1877 reference says the breeder was Marie Noisette.
Brent C. Dickerson 'Roll Call: The Old Rose Breeder' page 378 says the name of the only rose of Marie Noisette, bred in 1829 was 'A Grandes Fleurs Lilas, Repens'.
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#1 of 10 posted
1 SEP 11 by
 jedmar
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Indeed, it was Mister Marie Noisette, and we have a reference that he bred two Noisettes.
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#2 of 10 posted
2 SEP 11 by
Cà Berta
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The Catalogue descriptif, methodique et raisonné (1829), indeed reports , at pag 209, a Noisette sarmenteux in the nursery of M. L. Noisette, in Paris
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#3 of 10 posted
2 SEP 11 by
jedmar
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Thank you for the reference. I think we can assume that 'Repens' was bred (or discovered) by Marie Noisette in Brie-Comte-Robert, but also sold in the nursery of Louis Noisette (his brother) in Paris. This is where Prévost must have seen the rose.
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#4 of 10 posted
2 SEP 11 by
Cà Berta
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.... however there is something that does not fit and that, in my opinion, should be taken into consideration. The colour of Noisette sarmentoux is not white. The same reference reports another sarmentoux noisette, named Cherence, white.... Here is the reference. Were they mixed?
Catalogue descriptif, methodique et raisonné (1829)… pag 208-209
XLVe Espèce. ROSA NOISETTIANA, Bosc, Thory, Lindley. – Rosier Noisette.
Troisième Section: Rameaux long, peu ou point sarmenteux, avec ou sans soies glanduleuses. Pédonculesvelus ou pubescents, avec ou sans glandes. Ovaire glabre. Fleurs odorants, blanches ou carnées.
814. CHERENCE, V. Rameaux très-armés. Aiguillons forts, ordinairement droits, entremèlés de soies glanduleuses. Folioles ovoides-lancéolées, acuminées. Serrature inclinée. Ovaire ovoide-oblong. Sepales glabres, à bords glanduleux. Fleur moyenne, régulière, très-multiple, blanche, odorante
815. NOISETTE SARMENTEUX, L. N. .....
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#5 of 10 posted
2 SEP 11 by
Cà Berta
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To make things more complicated ... the same reference reports at pag 212 also a NOISETTE SARMENTEUSE
XLVe Espèce. ROSA NOISETTIANA, Bosc, Thory, Lindley. – Rosier Noisette
Cinquième Section: Rameaux très-long, sarmenteux, sans soies ni glandes. Péduncule glanduleux ou glabre, sans pubescence. Ovaire glabre ou glanduleux.
829. NOISETTE SARMENTEUSE, V. Péduncule glanduleux. Ovaire fusiforme-oblong, glanduleux ou glabre. Sèpales glanduleuses. Fleur moyenne, très-multiple, carnée, presque blanche.
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#6 of 10 posted
4 SEP 11 by
Cà Berta
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I found another reference (1838) reporting two different sarmento* Noisette: Sarmentose Noisette Rose and Vibert’s Sarmentous Noisette. According to the description of the sepals (a clear cut difference), the first is the Sarmenteux and the second the Sarmenteuse by Prevost. It may be useful to have different entries in HMF for these roses
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#7 of 10 posted
4 SEP 11 by
jedmar
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Thank you for the references: we now have 3 different early Noisettes, creeping to climbing, white to light pink.
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Are these refs relevant?
1820. L. P. F. A. de Chesnel Histoire De La Rose
p123 ‘Repens’. Hongrie. Wildenow
2000. Brent C. Dickerson “Roll Call: The Old Rose Breeder”
p580 Carl Ludwig Willdenow. Lived 1761 – 1812.
Date uncertain.
N. Parviflora [-1829]
2007 Brent C. Dickerson Old Roses: The Master List 2nd edition
p496 ‘Parviflora’. (Willdenow –1829) N. Pink, speckled white.
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#9 of 10 posted
5 SEP 11 by
jedmar
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Patricia, Willdenow was a German botanist not a breeder. The references to R. repens (creeping rose), R. parviflora, etc. are all derived from his book "Enumeratio plantarum hortii regii botanici Berolinensis" (1809), which is a listing of the plants in the Royal Botanical Gardens of Berlin. R. repens, Willd. is today seen as a synonym of R. arvensis, Huds.
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Jedmar - you are better than a walking encyclopaedia - an incredible knowledge of old roses.
Thanks.
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