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'Marie Ducher' rose Reviews & Comments
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Initial post
19 JUN 17 by
 scvirginia
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I wonder if anyone who is familiar with 'Marie Ducher' could have a look at photos of my foundling to check for a resemblance.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/87333171@N08/albums/72157645886830127
Some thorns are hooked, while others are straighter...
Alternate ID suggestions are welcome!
I also wonder if Rose Petal Nursery's found rose "Laurel Hill" could be the same variety...
http://rosepetalsnursery.com/rose.php?pid=678&cid=20&rose=Laurel%20Hill
Thanks for having a look,
Virginia
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#1 of 8 posted
15 MAR 18 by
Patricia Routley
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Virginia, I have added more references to 'Marie Ducher' and it is one BIG puzzle. I believe the colours varied so much in the references as there may have been confusion with the China 'Ducher'. But I cannot understand why Brent Dickerson did not include this rose more fully in his books. The only mentions I can see are his Old Roses. The Master List second edition, listing on p381, and in his Roll Call: The Old rose Breeder p141.
Would you translate the 1869 reference please.
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#2 of 8 posted
15 MAR 18 by
scvirginia
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Y'know, the description of yellowish white with rose colored outer petals sounds more like Marie Van Houtte than Ducher. If someone were typing up a series of Tea rose descriptions for a catalogue, it might be easy to transpose a description...
My two shekels' worth,
Virginia
Actually, I just encountered a description of Marie Sisley that makes me think there was a typing error; "yellowish-white, margined with bright rose".
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#3 of 8 posted
16 MAR 18 by
Patricia Routley
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Not really answering your comment, Virginia, but I am beginning to understand why Brent Dickerson (and the "tea ladies") did not list the original creamy white [Later edit: creamy white is incorrect] transparent 'Marie Ducher' in the main body of their books. It was because that rose was presumed extinct. I had difficulty reconciling their exclusion of it with the very popular rose that was featured in the 2009 reference and which was the foundling imported from New Zealand.
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#4 of 8 posted
16 MAR 18 by
scvirginia
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You've lost me. The oldest references all say 'Marie Ducher' was rose-colored or pink. Transparent rose or salmon-pink or light pink. Not until 1875 is she called cream-colored, and I suspect that could be a description of 'Madame Ducher' since 'Mme Ducher' was a GdD descendant.
Have you found a reference to an extinct 'Marie Ducher'?
Virginia
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#6 of 8 posted
16 MAR 18 by
Patricia Routley
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I think I have lost myself!
Point well taken about the 'Mme Ducher' and the 'Gloire de Dijon' connection. Do you think it is worthwhile adding a "possibly...".note to the cream- coloured references. I see you have today added a dozen more references for 'Marie Ducher' including the 1875 Peter Henderson one which mentioned a coloured plate. Is the plate available? Private (unfortunately) correspondence to me has said "The present-day Ducher nursery says that ‘Marie Ducher’ had become extinct in Europe".
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#7 of 8 posted
16 MAR 18 by
scvirginia
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I suspect that the colored plates mentioned in the Henderson reference were either part of a set for purchase or were sent loose along with the catalogue, and "suitable for framing". If I do come across an illustration of any sort, I will certainly add it.
If 'Marie Ducher' is extinct in Europe, does that mean that the rose John Hook referred to is not 'Marie Ducher'???
Virginia
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#5 of 8 posted
16 MAR 18 by
Nastarana
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I know nothing about 'Marie Ducher', but the rose in the photo of Amirose does not look like the others. The bloom in Amirose's photo does show the 'soft apricot" color mentioned in some references, the open bloom is quartered, which the other pictured open blooms are not, and the prickles are green, not red.
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#8 of 8 posted
16 MAR 18 by
scvirginia
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Nastarana, I hate to admit it, but I don't see any prickles- green or otherwise- in the Amirose photo.
Given the varying descriptions of 'Marie Ducher', I have assumed that her coloring probably varies (or varied?) according to growing conditions and/or season? That photo certainly shows a lighter colored flower, but I had just supposed that it's down to Tea changeability? I admit that I'd feel better about that supposition if Amirose had posted a few other photos showing the range of coloring...
Virginia
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Initial post
4 APR 13 by
John Hook
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The prickles on Marie Ducher are deeply hooked, on Mrs B.R Cant they tend to be flat and straight
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#1 of 2 posted
5 APR 13 by
billy teabag
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Many thanks for that John. It is very good to have something definite to look for when trying to tell the difference. Have you found that the blooms of the two varieties are consistently very similar?
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#2 of 2 posted
5 APR 13 by
John Hook
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I will look closer this year, To be honest, I had ignored Marie Ducher assuming it to be Mrs B.R Cant but noticed the prickles a couple of weeks ago so I will compare more thoroughly if we ever get to having spring or summer again
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Initial post
25 APR 10 by
kai-eric
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has anybody ever compared marie ducher in commerce to mrs b.r.cant? what about our friends in new-zealand from where the variety recently came back to europe?
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#1 of 1 posted
14 MAY 11 by
John Hook
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It's a bit early to tell but currently my plant has much darker leaves than Mrs B.R Cant and are much rounder, but the flowers are very similar.
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