HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
DescriptionPhotosLineageAwardsReferencesMember RatingsMember CommentsMember JournalsCuttingsGardensBuy From 
'Bicolore' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 168-567
most recent 18 SEP HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 18 SEP by odinthor
As far as I can tell, other than the (undescribed) mention by Charles Singer in 1850, it would be a quarter century before any 'Bicolor' or 'Bicolore' by Oger would be mentioned again anywhere. In that era, an undescribed rose listing in a catalog would imply that the cataloguer was expecting delivery of a new or newish rose from its breeder/propagator (with the rose then being described in subsequent listings by the cataloguer from subsequent personal experience with the rose). Reading the tea leaves on this, it appears to me that Charles Singer (of Mannheim, Germany) anticipated a 'Bicolor' HP from Oger (of Caen, France), which then went undelivered for some reason (loss of the parent stock, failure in the propagating house, etc.). Another thing to keep in mind is that Oger could have raised two Bicolor[e]s, one early in his career, one late. It's very strange that even the most exhaustive cataloguers and most thoroughgoing journals apparently make no mention of it between 1850 and into the 1870s. One wonders if Oger's 1852 HP 'Rose et Blanche' was the mysterious 'Bicolor' of 1850.
REPLY
Reply #1 of 1 posted 18 SEP by jedmar
Who knows? Daniel from Normandie also had questions about this rose. We have just added a Bourbon 'Bicolor' from the Pfitzner rose list of 1852. Same as the HP from Oger?
REPLY
Discussion id : 125-419
most recent 2 FEB 21 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 1 FEB 21 by Daniel from Normandy
Bonjour,
Toujours au sujet de 'Bicolore' d'Oger, la magnifique photo de AmiRoses qui illustre cette rose a de toute évidence environ une centaine de pétales. Donc pas de "17 à 25 pétales" comme indiqué dans sa description.
A ce sujet, quelles sont les roses qui ont 17 pétales ?
Daniel
REPLY
Reply #1 of 3 posted 2 FEB 21 by jedmar
Les descriptions de la page principale suivent les références qui indiquent que 'Bicolore' était double. On ne dit pas que la rose photographiée de L'Hay était correcte, d'autant plus qu'elle a été retirée depuis.
Concernant le nombre de pétales, c'est une convention utilisée dans HMF: simple pour 4-8 pétales, semi-double (9-16), double (17-25) etc. Cela ne veut pas dire qu'il y a des roses à 17 pétales - Je n'ai pas vraiment compté.
Ce qui m'intrigue davantage, c'est que 'Bicolore' d'Oger apparaît dans un catalogue de C. Singer de 1850 - soit 27 ans avant la date officielle!


The descriptions on the main page follow the references which indicate that 'Bicolore' was double. It is not said that the rose pictured from L'Hay was correct, especially as it has been removed since.
Regarding the number of petals, this is a convention used in HMF: single is for 4-8 petals, semi-double (9-16), double (17-25) etc. This does not mean that there are roses with 17 petals - I haven't really counted.
What intrigues me more is that 'Bicolore' by Oger appears in a catalogue by C. Singer from 1850 - i.e. 27 years before the official date!
REPLY
Reply #2 of 3 posted 2 FEB 21 by Daniel from Normandy
Bonjour,
Merci de votre réponse précise.
Je ne connais pas ce catalogue de C. Singer 1850 où peut-on le trouver ?
Vous dites que la superbe photo de AmiRoses (2004) a été retirée, mais je la vois toujours comme seule image pour la Bicolore d'Oger ! La rose a été perdue depuis à L'Hay, comme beaucoup d'Hybrides remontants, hélas, une catastrophe.
Amicalement, avec mes meilleurs vœux.
Daniel
REPLY
Reply #3 of 3 posted 2 FEB 21 by jedmar
Je voulais dire que la rose était retirée (ou perdu), pas le photo d'Etienne.
Le catalogue de C. Singer (il habite à Mannheim les 1840/50) est disponible sur Google. Chercher "Singer Verzeichniss der besten und neuesten Rosen".
REPLY
Discussion id : 125-418
most recent 2 FEB 21 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 1 FEB 21 by Daniel from Normandy
Bonjour,
La rose 'Bicolore' d'Oger (qui se trouvait planche LVIII 5) n'existe plus à la roseraie de L'Hay les roses
Daniel
REPLY
Reply #1 of 1 posted 2 FEB 21 by jedmar
Merci, nous avons supprimé le jardin.
REPLY
© 2025 HelpMeFind.com