Geoffrey, I couldn’t sleep last night so got up to do some work. I accidently pressed DELETE, instead of REPLY to your subsequent reply on what Andrew said. (The dear man is not really the master of record keeping is he). If you have a copy of your comment, that would be great. Otherwise, the essence of it was that Andrew chucked in a few seeds from unknown red roses to see what would come up. So while parentage is unknown, I guess the breeder would be Andrew Ross, before 2000. My apologies - and thank you for your help.