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'Titian' rose Reviews & Comments
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Initial post
10 OCT 18 by
 hebe
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Mine are in their third and fourth years, and are finally coming in to their own. They are sprawling shrubs, and happy to climb on anything that they can. The petals are thick, and stand up to heat and rain very well. The colour is very hard to capture, but billyteabag's photos give the best idea of it, I would describe the colour as a glowing, light red. It does get blackspot here.
edited to add: I cut a few blooms a couple of days ago, and they have faded to a shocking pink. Strangely, mine do not do that on the bush.
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Titian is on sale from Kurinda Roses, 404 Warragul–Lardner Road, Warragul VIC 3820.
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The one in my garden (Vintage Gardens 2012) is finishing up its first growing season here. It made a few flowers in the spring, grew a little, and made a few flowers in the fall. Doesn't sound like much, perhaps, but I find it to be doing remarkably well for a rose growing on its own roots here. It has a nicely branched, shrubby form, and I'm fond of the flowers. They are large, cupped, and quartered - though not so stiffly as they would be in a smaller blossom. The color is an extraordinary warm pink that, in fall, might be lightly kissed with scarlet at the petal tips. Fragrance is not powerful but it is very noticeable and very pleasant. It has a quality that reminds me of the smell of hybrid tea roses in the sixties: maybe it's green tea and damask. I live where blackspot is almost non-existent and most roses do not usually get mildew; but we had a wet August and this was one of the roses in my garden that remained untouched by a wave of mildew that swept through in September. Until it overwinters here a few times I cannot be certain, but this rose looks like a keeper.
UPDATE Spring 2013 - It made it through the winter, but the spring's early warmth with many dips below 20F have blackened all the canes. Only one holds green leaves right now. I must move it to a cooler spot where it will not try to grow before it is ready to resist late frosts.
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I also bought a Titian from VG last year. Mine so far survived the relatively warm winter last year, when temps went no lower than minus 5F. The flowers are large and beautiful as described, and are a very unusual color, brught pink suffused with light red is how I would describe it. This is not just another pink rose. I can also confirm the branching growth habit. Growth has been rather slow during our cool summer. I think I might pinch off the buds nexxt spring to see if I can induce more growth of leaf and branch first.
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At least six roses bred by Frank Riethmuller were named after racehorses. In the case of 'Gay Vista' we have Riethmuller's own word for it (Your Garden, January 1959, p. 21). Some sources, e.g. Charles Quest-Ritson in the RHS Encyclopaedia of Roses, p. 399, claim 'Titian' was bred as early as 1934. Maybe so, but the chestnut filly Titian was born in Australia in 1947 and racing circa 1949–1952. The name was thus chosen a few years before the rose was registered in 1955. Rival sources of the name seem to be redundant.
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Noted. Eric - I'll add that interesting "bred in 1934, distributed in Europe in 1950" reference. I note that in 1956 (one year after registration), Harry Hazlewood wrote "Has received high praise in Europe" and it takes time for roses to grow and to receive high praise.
Interesting that the filly Titian was chestnut coloured.
Thanks.
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Patricia, there are specific reasons to doubt 'Titian' dating from 1934. In 1934 Riethmuller may have rented land on which to grow plants, but he didn't own any till 1937. Moreover he wasn't interested in roses in 1934: he was a "dahlia crank" in his own words. He was also mad about cactuses. His interest in roses dates from 1937 or 1938.
Let's say he had beginner's luck and 'Titian' was one of his first batch of crosses (there were 200 according to Riethmuller). He wouldn't have known how good it was till 1939 or 1940 at the earliest, and by then wartime conditions would have prevented him doing anything to publicise it. And rose registrations ceased till after the war (see Better Roses, 1955 edition by Dr AS Thomas, who would know, since he was the registrar). But that wouldn't have stopped Riethmuller handing it around to collectors. Wartime movement was restricted, but racing continued in Sydney and Melbourne, to which he sometimes followed his bookmaker employer. So Dr Thomas or other Melbourne collectors may have received 'Titian' in Melbourne long before it was registered in 1950 or 1955.
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Eric - I have underlined the doubtful or incorrect points in that reference to alert the reader.
I agree, the 1934 date makes the brow furrow. Perhaps Mr. Quest-Ritson can offer further insight to this date?
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It is possible that 'Titian' the rose was named after Titian the racehorse, but I stand by my remark in Naming the Rose that it was named after the painter. I remember discussing the rose with Mr Riethmuller back in about 1962 or 63; and while I don't remember asking if the rose was named for the old master, I do recall his remarking that he was one of his favourite painters and saying how much he admired the brilliance of his colouring. He never mentioned racehorses.
It is an appropriate name for a chestnut filly, of course -- many of Titian's women were redheads, whence "titian" has long a description of red hair, as in "a titian-haired beauty'. And it may be that the christening of the horse suggested the painter's name would be apt for a rose as brilliantly coloured as this.
As for the date of its breeding, I notice that Thomas gives "TITIAN, Riethmuller (1950)" twice in 'Better Roses' (the edition I have is the 1962 one). So I assume that is the date the name was registered; it may not have been till 1955 that it was registered with the ARS. (If anyone has the American Rose Annuals from 1951 to '56 it would be easy enough to check in which issue 'Titian's' registration was announced.) Now, I vividly remember looking at a half-open flower of 'Titian' with Riethmuller's niece Miss Bischoff, and her remarking that it was only at that state that it showed anything like exhibition form. (how tastes have changed!!) and asking her why he had registered it as a Floribunda when it is so obviously a climber. She said that as it was his first success, he was still inexperienced in these matters and she thought he hadn't actually seen how big it would grow. Which would have been most unlikely if he had already had it in his garden for several years. Unfortunately, she said, he had not kept a record of its parentage.
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Roger, it comes to seem more likely 'Titian' was named after a horse when you see how many others were probably named after horses. Maybe Riethmuller liked honey, but there was a horse racing in Sydney called 'Honeyflow.' The rose is also scented of honey, but that shows him having a bob each way, not that the horse name is irrelevant. 'Gay Vista' was certainly named after a horse because Riethmuller said so. Then there are 'Helios', 'Filagree', 'Gayness' and 'Alma', all with contemporary horsey namesakes.
Of course Riethmuller could have had a bob each way on 'Titian' as well. But the Titianesque qualities of the rose are hard to find. Titian Red is actually the colour of red-gold hair, which the rose certainly is not. Nor is it chestnut coloured. There may be Venuses getting around Urbino now with pink-magenta hair the colour of Riethmuller's rose, but that colour nowhere occurs in Titian's work. Titian's Madonna of the Rose? Her rose is white for purity.
I am sure you are right about 'Titian's' dates. It was bred and named by 1950. (The horse was racing in Sydney 1949–1950.) Registration is another thing. The Australian registrar was AS Thomas, and he registered it in 1955.
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Roger, I have the American Rose Annuals and have checked 1951 to 1962 and have found no mention of ‘Titian’. Modern Roses 4 (1952) did not list the rose. However, Modern Roses 5 (1958) was listing it, quoting the date of 1950, which I presume they picked up from Dr. Thomas’ error in the 1958 Australian Rose Annual. I say error, because Dr. Thomas had earlier quoted 1955 in his registration in the 1955 Australian Rose Annual. He used to quote the exact day that registration occurred in Australia and the 1955 reference shows that ‘Titian’ was registered on January 11, 1955.
I also have the first (1950) edition of Dr. Thomas’ Better Roses and can find no mention of ‘Titian’.
It is good to see your name in Helpmefind.
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It is possible that 'Titian' the rose was named after Titian the racehorse, but I stand by my remark in Naming the Rose that it was named after the painter. I remember discussing the rose with Mr Riethmuller back in about 1962 or 63; and while I don't remember asking if the rose was named for the old master, I do recall his remarking that he was one of his favourite painters and saying how much he admired the brilliance of his colouring. He never mentioned racehorses.
It is an appropriate name for a chestnut filly, of course -- many of Titian's women were redheads, whence "titian" has long a description of red hair, as in "a titian-haired beauty'. And it may be that the christening of the horse suggested the painter's name would be apt for a rose as brilliantly coloured as this.
As for the date of its breeding, I notice that Thomas gives "TITIAN, Riethmuller (1950)" twice in 'Better Roses' (the edition I have is the 1962 one). So I assume that is the date the name was registered; it may not have been till 1955 that it was registered with the ARS. (If anyone has the American Rose Annuals from 1951 to '56 it would be easy enough to check in which issue 'Titian's' registration was announced.) Now, I vividly remember looking at a half-open flower of 'Titian' with Riethmuller's niece Miss Bischoff, and her remarking that it was only at that state that it showed anything like exhibition form. (how tastes have changed!!) and asking her why he had registered it as a Floribunda when it is so obviously a climber. She said that as it was his first success, he was still inexperienced in these matters and she thought he hadn't actually seen how big it would grow. Which would have been most unlikely if he had already had it in his garden for several years. Unfortunately, she said, he had not kept a record of its parentage.
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