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'The Bride's Rose' Reviews & Comments
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I cannot as of yet find sources earlier than the 1880s quoting 1835 for 'Mme. Plantier'. Rivers does not list it in 1837, but does in 1840; and Lacharme, Plantier's successor, certainly exhibits it in 1840. (Burdin lists a 'Madame Plantier', as new but otherwise undescribed, in 1838, but lists it as a Bourbon, probably thus the pink Bourbon of that name.) Where does the dating of 1835 originate for our 'Mme. Plantier'?
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#1 of 4 posted
2 SEP by
 jedmar
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The date of 1835 seems first to have been mentioned by Sisley in the Journal des Roses of April 1879.
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I can see why people would take it as Sisley stating that all of these roses mentioned in the Journal des Roses quote were from 1835; but, reading closely, with his "puis ensuite" the whole statement actually amounts to "In 1835, he released to commerce the Tea 'Eugénie Desgaches', then next [puis ensuite] the Bourbon 'Triomphe de Plantier', the Tea 'Pauline Plantier', the Hybrid Perpetual 'Reine de la Guillotière', and the Alba 'Madame Plantier'," which just means the latter four were released subsequently to 'Eugénie Desgaches'. Had he meant they all were released together in 1835, he likely would have written "en même temps."
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#3 of 4 posted
2 SEP by
jedmar
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Yes, the original text could mean any time after 1835. The translator in the Journal of Horticulture of 1879, however, must have read it as if all 5 were issued in 1835: " M. Plantier seems to have been the first to commence the pursuit, and his first Roses were sent out in 1835. He sent out five, and of these Alba, Madame Plantier, and Tea Eugène Desgaches are still known."
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Yes, quite so. And so it leaves us to untangle things a century and a half later. Well, at least we enjoy the fun!
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Initial post
25 FEB 04 by
Unregistered Guest
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I have a Madame Plantier Rose that is appromixately 5' tall and has no buds. It gets full sun and I keep the soil moist. My other roses are blooming and have been since June. This rose was planted at the same time. I am stymied becases I can't figure out why it isn't blooming. I also have been fertilizing with Schultz bloom pus (10-60-10). Please could you give me a suggestion on what to do,
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As I understand them, Mme Plantier roses like partial shade. I've even seen one site mention they like dappled shade.
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#2 of 7 posted
15 MAR 15 by
Hardy
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Mine does fine when in pretty deep shade, but its colony of PM also thrives. PM pressure here is intense, and it's probably a different strain than what most of you have, but depending on where you live, you might want to leave it in a pot at the intended location for a while, and see whether it stays healthy.
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#3 of 7 posted
26 MAR by
Camieux
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Can you explain what PM means? PM pressure? Thank you. I am deciding on a spot to plant Mme Plantier.
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Probably powdery mildew. I wonder if the OP ever got her rose bush to bloom.
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#5 of 7 posted
26 MAR by
Camieux
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Thank you! Makes total sense, fortunately I do not have that problem but suffer from RRD….rose rosette disease. Ugh.
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#6 of 7 posted
27 MAR by
Lee H.
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I do hope that you are destroying (best by fire) any specimens you discover with the disease. You probably know it is incurable, and contagious to other roses.
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#7 of 7 posted
27 MAR by
Camieux
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Yes, I am unfortunately aware of that. My roses are just beginning to break dormancy and so far so good. Too early to tell yet though.
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I just had this rose arrive from David Austin. In the description on HMF says its lineage is damascena x moschata, I can't see how that would make it a hybrid China rose as well as an Alba or Hybrid Noisette?
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Having read the Note in the 1940 reference, and other comments, I have deleted the class of china and noisette, leaving it as an alba.
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Initial post
28 JUL 11 by
Hardy
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Here's a question for those with a good grip on fragrance issues: looking over the list of components, I see none of the usual chinensis markers. Wouldn't that make it very unlikely to be a Noisette, or am I missing something?
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#1 of 4 posted
28 JUL 11 by
jedmar
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You are quite right. Compare with the article "Volatile Components in Chinese Roses": 'Mme Plantier' is missing the typical beta-ionone. It is very much an alba, as the comparison with the VOC analysis of 'Maiden's Blush' and 'Königin von Dänemark' shows. The very early classification as a Hybrid Noisette seems to be based not on a Noisette as a parent, but possibly R. moschata.
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I couldn't help wondering why it is so cold hardy. It will do well in US zone 4. I guess that explains it.
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It's hard to say. Some species were often called musk rose in passing, that were not actually Rosa moschata.
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Shakespeare's musk rose was Rosa arvensis.
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