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'Lordly Oberon' rose Reviews & Comments
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Just came across a bush of this variety at a local garden centre (Melbourne, Australia, mid summer) and absolutely LOVED the fragrance. About as good as you'll smell. Looked to be pretty gangly, though. Don't think I'd care if it still produced a good number of those magnificently perfumed blooms, though.
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Steve, if Lordly Oberon performs there as it does here, do NOT believe it is a shrub. Treat it like a climber which wants to be 15' - 20' and both of you will be quite happy. It has lovely flowers with fairly good disease resistance and intense fragrance. It roots easily and is enormous own root.
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Thanks kindly for the tip, Rupert (or is your first name Kim?). When you say "treat it like a climber", what exactly do you mean by that? I don't have a lot of experience with climbing roses and certainly don't have any experience with any that get to 15'-20'! I take it you would need to have something big for it to climb up/on to? And how does it go from being a rose that it said on the tag grows to 6 foot, to being able to grow up to 20 foot? Do the canes just start getting longer and longer, if you don't prune the bush?
As for "rooting easily", do you mean if you plant it with the graft a few inches under the ground that roots will start to grow from the lower canes, or do you mean that it is easy to propagate from cuttings (which I haven't managed to do before, although I've only tried once)?
Any help on this would be much appreciated, as I haven't really learned about these things with roses yet.
Steve
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Hi Steve, Kim is my first name. How it goes from a shrub to a climber is simple. In a harsh climate, where cold, lack of heat, shorter growing season, etc., govern the growth, it becomes a large shrub. Where the season is long, resources plentiful and heat and light levels are sufficient, this thing just keeps growing! The canes get MUCH longer and new canes stimulated by pruning get overly long, too.
It works best if there is a wall or fence upon which to grow it. I have one at a client's grown up the entry wall. Her mother's is trained against a block wall. Both get taller than their "supports" so have to be trimmed back regularly. Both produce four to five foot canes which break into flowers, usually three to a cluster, so if you wanted to, you could easily cut them with three foot stems. This is the one grown on the block wall. The wall is a bit over five feet tall and it's been trimmed back, just beginning to throw new growth. http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.170160 This is the one grown on the entry wall. http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.191539 It's a bit more difficult to see due to the tree limbs entering the shot from the right, but you can get the idea. If the plant were grown in a more severe climate with reduced sun intensity and duration as well as higher winds and much more cold, it would be more "stunted" or controlled, producing a shorter plant. Here in the "land of endless summer", it grows unchecked by anything short of being whacked back by me. It's very much like gold fish growing to the size of their bowl. Put it in a larger bowl, it gets bigger. Give this rose sufficient resources and it will make good use of them.
I'd imagine if you wanted to bury the bud union it could go own root, and it does root easily. Both of these are own root plants. If you'd like to experiment with a very easy method of rooting, please feel free to check out the wrapping method I've detailed on my blog, Pushing The Rose Envelope at this address. http://pushingtheroseenvelope.blogspot.com/2011/05/wrapping-cuttings.html
If you start where I've linked and read it through, you should find most of your questions answered and be up to date on the latest tweaks and discoveries. I've already wrapped about twenty varieties of cuttings now (the first on Christmas Eve, second on New Year's Day) and planted them in their pots waiting for the rains to help carry them forward. As with any method of anything gardening, it probably won't work exactly the same in your climate due to all the variables, but it should provide you with the basics for you to be able to adjust it as you go and succeed where you haven't before. There are many methods of rooting which work, but not all work identically everywhere. This was the first to work in my new climate, where all the methods I'd previously had success with in the old climate, failed. Please feel free to use any of it and share variations you find which tailor it to suit your specific needs. Enjoy! Kim
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#4 of 39 posted
19 JAN 12 by
 Jay-Jay
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Kim, is that the same brick wall as the one with Annie Laurie McDowell? (http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.170160)
And the blog is added to my favorites.
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Good catch, Jay Jay! Yes, it's around the same back garden. Annie Laurie McDowell begins at the gate to the far left, followed by Star Jasmine as the Mme. Alfred Carriere got too large and the neighbor's tree shaded it too much. Now, the tree is gone but the Jasmine remains. The two Sally Holmes which covered the patio cover had to be moved, so they come next, followed by Rosarium Uetersen and Lordly Oberon. Dortmund meets it in the corner and eats the wall down to where Malvern Hills once stood. That was replaced by two new smaller climbing polyanthas which, hopefully, won't over grow the space. The garden owner didn't want to see the block walls and already had several of the roses, but in the wrong places, so I moved them around and we're all much happier now.
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#6 of 39 posted
19 JAN 12 by
Jay-Jay
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I have a strong recollection/memory....
That's not always nescessary a good characteristic! Sometimes a burden.
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I understand, believe me!
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You might like to try a warm-weather method of striking cutttings, too. See www.heritage.rose.org.au > Resources > Rose Propagation. It's a variant of the ziplock bag technique developed by Mike Shoup in the US.
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#11 of 39 posted
20 JAN 12 by
Jay-Jay
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Margaret, could You please give a direct link? For when I search with this-one I only get the whole website.
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Hi Kim, thanks a heap for the quick and detailed reply, plus the links and pics. The pics of Lordly Oberon are very impressive, thanks. I notice that the canes at the base of the one growing on the block wall look very "silver", as in fairly old. Is it not recommended to cut older, woody canes like that back/off, or doesn't it necessarily matter? And is there something "tying" the plant to the wall, or is the wall sufficient?
We don't really have any suitable spots for climbers here, otherwise I'd like to grow some, so I'll have to wait until I hopefully live in a suitable spot with room for them, then I can put all I've learned into practise and can experiment with varieties like this. We're also in a very windy area here, so growing taller roses can be a bit of a challenge. I imagine the possums would also have a bit of a feast on them, if they were climbing on fences or some walls. One climbing rose we do have (Cecile Brunner) climbs onto the front part of our front roof and they get up onto the roof and munch away on that one from there!
I'll also have a look at your blog when I have a bit of time to take it all in. We barely have room for all the roses we have here now (most are still in pots and will need to either be put into the ground, or into much bigger pots soon) so I don't have much room for any new ones that I've grown from cuttings or anything, but hopefully I will at some point down the track.
Thanks again and good luck with your latest cuttings and any new varieties you're working on!
Steve
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Hi Steve, thank you! You may, if you have room, create a tripod or "tee pee" to grow it on. That can allow you room to grow larger roses needing support without walls or fences. This one was bred for vigor in a harsher climate from very vigorous roses, and it makes very good use of that in milder ones.
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You're most welcome Kim and thanks for the tip. That does sound like a good idea for growing climbers without a wall or fence!
Steve
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#13 of 39 posted
20 JAN 12 by
Jay-Jay
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You might use re-inforcingrods use for building with concrete. And wiretwist them together.
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If you get windy and wet as we had it this winter, the tripods have to be secured rather substantially in the ground, not to timber over. I had a few climbers still on a bamboo tripods this winter and it was a major pain to keep them from flying off, with the whole support. To think off it, they probably would have done better without any support, than the bamboo tipies. x)
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I'm sorry Steve, I just realized I didn't fully answer your questions. These plants put out basals easily and much new growth from all of the existing canes, so taking out older ones hasn't been an issue. I use a product called the Tumex Trellis Kit instead of setting screws or other attachments which jeopardize the integrity of the wall surface. It consists of small aluminum caps with eyelets. You glue them to the surface with silicon rubber. Once they dry, usually a day or two, you can either string the aluminum wire through the eyelets to create a custom trellis of the size and area you've designed with the caps or tie the plant directly to the eyelets with plant tape. Occasionally, there are failures with caps coming loose, but I've used the product for nearly ten years with excellent results. I'm sure you have something similar where you are. I'll have to see if I have a package around for a web site as searching for it on line just now resulted in no hits.
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No worries Kim and thanks for answering those questions, it's much appreciated. This really is a great place to share info!
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#16 of 39 posted
20 JAN 12 by
Jay-Jay
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I had the productsite stored under my favorites, despite the unavailability in the Netherlands. (only in yhe USA and Canada.):
http://www.tumaxgardenproducts.com/
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Thanks Jay Jay. I was in a rush to get out and must have been hitting something odder than I normally do!
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Try this, Jay-Jay:
http://www.heritage.rose.org.au/warm-weather-rose-propagation.html
The cuttings need (at least) 6 weeks of warm weather using this method.
Best wishes,
Margaret
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#20 of 39 posted
21 JAN 12 by
Jay-Jay
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Thank You Margaret,
I might even try it this winter, for the night temperatures are a lot higher, than the (for Dutch winters) usual day temperatures! Crépuscule still has leaves...and flowers! Last winters some canes died because of the frosts.
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#21 of 39 posted
4 MAR 17 by
ddrose
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Dear Kim I grow Lordly Oberon in Sacramento, California. I have planted him against a sunny side of the house.
Oberon's canes are every so long. And they only seem to bloom at the ends. I am blessed with a warm dry climate so the enchanting blooms do open..........but they are so high above my head! And not very many since they only seem to bloom at the end of the cane. Do you have any suggestions on how to prune this beauty so I an enjoy more of those exquisite flowers?
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Hi Ddrose! I love Lordly Oberon's flowers, but in our climates, there really isn't any such thing as "prune to make it bloom". This horse IS a climber in milder climates. These are two I grew at clients' homes in the Santa Clarita Valley for years.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.191539
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.170160
The only way I have ever accommodated Lordly Oberon was to grow it like the climber it wants to be. You can whack it back as often as you want, but it will continue demanding many feet of growth before it produces a flower. The first photo is a two story entry where we tried growing the plant to cover that expanse of stucco. I have 70" long reach pruners with 35" sleeves and I still needed a step ladder to dead head it. Grown that way, pretty much straight up, because there was too little horizontal space available to lay it out in that direction, there was little bloom and always at the ends of six-foot-plus canes. The second photo is at the first client's mother's house where I could grow it against a five foot tall block wall. Even that was too short for the growth it demanded. It usually flowered two to three feet above that five foot wall on laterals from the main canes. In Britain, with their harsher winters, shorter growing seasons and lower "heat" periods, it is a vigorous shrub. In much of California, it IS a climber and refuses to be constrained. Good luck!
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#23 of 39 posted
4 MAR 17 by
ddrose
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Dear Kim, I guess to get more of those wonderful roses, I should work for laterals. What if I let the canes stretch out as they want and hope for laterals after a year or two to start blooming. thanks for the encouragement. LO is a gorgeous fragrant flower - on giant canes.
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You're welcome! Yes, train the canes out as horizontally as you are able and they will begin pushing laterals almost immediately. Those laterals will flower in just a few weeks. Once they've bloomed, but them back to two or three buds and each of those will then push more laterals and each will then flower. It's very much like espaliering fruit trees then pruning for fruiting spurs. You are only limited by the room in which you have to spread it out. Apical dominance is the sap pressure is highest at the tallest point and that is what pushes new growth and flowering. By bending the canes off the vertical, you more evenly spread out the sap pressure along the cane, stimulating the buds along the cane to push growth (laterals) to flower and fruit (set hips). Most roses will respond this way if trained this way. "Climbers" are generally just overly long, hopefully more limber, "bushes", so even bushes with more limber growth will respond the same way. Climate can inhibit the overly long growth, as it does for the Austins (and other) roses which are "shrubs" or bushes in shorter, colder climates but, when unleashed in longer, warmer conditions, "climb". Spread it out, but not downward, as sap usually will not flow down hill and the cane ends will die back. Just off the vertical and all the way to horizontal, and you should have a fine crop of very long, flowering laterals. Lordly Oberon will root pretty easily, so if you want another plant to grow somewhere more suitable for training like this, root some laterals after they flower and have fun with it. Can you imagine that spread all along a tall fence? Incredible!
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If LO roots easily, it could be a good candidate for propagation by layering.
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Though I've not tried it, I believe it would respond favorably. Bob Edberg, who owned Limberlost Roses and Liberlost Rose Books, grew it in his entry in Van Nuys, CA for years. The plant created a canopy over his front door and grew over on to the roof on the opposite side of the entry. He should have put it out on his fence to battle with Mermaid!
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#27 of 39 posted
5 MAR 17 by
ddrose
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I bent a couple canes over horizontally a couple years ago - and some of the laterals grew more than 6 feet with a couple blooms at the top. that frightened me.
I guess i should not be so fain of heart. I willl work at making some canes more horizontal, and then shortening the laterals to 3 or 4 buds. I did that to a climbing peace rose - and is was beautifull. Lordly Oberon is an even more veritcal rose, so I will have give him more encouragement this year to go lateral. Thanks for the encouragement.
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#28 of 39 posted
5 MAR 17 by
Jay-Jay
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Étoile de Hollande Cl. behaves similar, but when trained horizontally it may look like this: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.279769
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#33 of 39 posted
5 MAR 17 by
ddrose
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The laterals appear to be cut to 3 or 4 buds. Should I take those very long laterals and cut them down to 3 or 4 buds?
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#34 of 39 posted
5 MAR 17 by
Jay-Jay
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One can do that during the growing season as well as in spring.
The best and longest canes/laterals, I use to train horizontally and to replace dead or diseased wood, or those horizontal canes that do not flower abundantly.
The smaller ones, I cut back to 3-even 7 buds. Later in the season, I cut the (left) longer laterals back again after flowering. And flowers for on the vase of course!
If You go back in time over the years, the whole story of this particular rose of mine (Étoile de Hollande) is told in photo's.
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#35 of 39 posted
5 MAR 17 by
ddrose
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Jay Jay my garden is in downtown Sacramento, CA. Lordly Oberon has quite a few canes shooting into the sky. The canes get thick and rigid quite fast and are hard to train horizontally. I will have to go out and talk to him this afternoon. As you might guess, LO has had me buffaloed.
Is it too early to try striking a few cuttings? Maybe if I start a younger LO it might be easier.
Thanks for all the advice, Jay Jay. Etoile de Hollande is a highly cherished rose. If I can persuade LO to be as lovely as Etoile...what a wonderful world this will be. dd
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There are numerous methods of rooting cuttings. One which works quite well is to use stems from blooms whose petals have just shattered. As had been earlier suggested, you may also try the various layering methods, even the most basic method of simply laying one of the canes on the damp soil and putting a heavy rock on it to encourage it to root. With all that material to experiment with, you should Google all the different methods of rooting and try as many as you are inclined to try. All of them work somewhere, though not all are going to work everywhere and with every rose. Your summer heat may prevent you from using some, while that heat may help make others work better, faster. You should definitely read the "Rose Rustler's Took Kit" at this link http://www.rose.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Volume-8-Issue-9.pdf which goes hand in hand with this wonderful article, also by Mel Hulse, here in Help Me Find. http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=66.666
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#29 of 39 posted
5 MAR 17 by
Jay-Jay
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...and later on like this: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.281762
It can have new canes over 3m long
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Beautiful, Jay Jay!
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You're welcome, go for it!
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I trained 'Étoile de Hollande Cl' for a neighbour like this on the front of her house. I allowed the canes to grow up 1.5m then they are all tied in horizontally between the ground floor and first floor windows. The rose responds well and flowers abundantly.
In the past it was quite common for climbing roses to be used in bedding schemes in public parks. The new canes were supported in metal hoops whilst they were growing, then in the winter pegged down 30cm above the ground so they would flower all along their length.
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#37 of 39 posted
6 MAR 17 by
ddrose
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Did some of the ends of the pegged canes die? when i train a cane horizontally if frequently dies back.
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Perhaps you're training them too far downhill? If you're not having success with full horizontal, then make them less "level", still with an upward direction. Experiment to see how close to full horizontal you can successfully train them. Each rose is different, depending upon their genetics and I can imagine any water stress or extreme heat (which causes water stress) can inhibit their ability to push sap long distances. The length you can get it to flow horizontally in a milder climate might be greater than what might work in extreme heat.
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I would cut back a little off the end of each cane depending on it's vigour and it's size. If the rose is supple enough the growths can easily be trained to arch over curling around on itself when grown against a wall or on wires and the sap will be running up hill and down hill. However we seldom, if ever, suffer from extreme heat or drought in the U.K.
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The url on the description page (http://www.nsac.ns.ca/nsac/ps/annual96/mapple.htm) appears to link to a dead server. According to Wikipedia, the website is defunct. NSAC no longer exists, having merged with Dalhousie University back in 2012.
Does anyone know if the results of the disease resistance study are available anywhere else? If they are, it would make sense to archive them on HMF.
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Deleted the URL. Sorry I can't help with the results. Perhaps someone else can?
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This may be more useful: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1659861/blackspot-resistant-david-austin-roses
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#2 of 5 posted
5 MAR 17 by
styrax
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.web.archive.org/web/19970620002109/http://www.nsac.ns.ca/nsac/ps/annual96/mapple.htm
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Doesn't work. Syntax is borked.
This works:
https://web.archive.org/web/19970620002109/http://www.nsac.ns.ca/nsac/ps/annual96/mapple.htm
The relevant text is:
Field Evaluation of the New English (David Austin) Roses
L.R. Mapplebeck
Fifty-eight cultivars of English roses are under field evaluation. Promising cultivars include Chianti, Constance Spry, Lilian Austin, Shropshire Lass and St. Swithum.
A new type of shrub rose has been developed by rose breeder David Austin, in England. In the last few years these new roses have hit world markets with a storm. Demand has outstripped supply. In the last couple of years some of these new English rose cultivars have been offered to consumers in this Region via garden centers and mail order catalogues. The problem is that little is known about the performance and potential of these roses in this Region of Canada. More than a million dollars worth of rose bushes (hybrid teas, floribundas, shrub-types, etc.) are imported into N.S. each year. Many of these, especially the hybrid teas, are not hardy here and hence winterkill. Many of these new English roses have hybrid-tea-types in their pedigrees, hence may also not be hardy. Personal observations have resulted in the conclusion that many cultivars will not survive the rigours of our winters, so consumers are in many cases wasting their money. The hardiness and overall performance of these English roses therefore needed to be evaluated.
Fifty-eight cultivars of David Austin (English) roses were planted in a replicated field trial on June 1, 1995. Cultivars were evaluated during the 1995 growing season. Fifteen of the David Austin rose cultivars had season averages for aesthetic ratings of 3.5 or better out of a 5.0 maximum. These were (decreasing order): Redoute, Shropshire Lass, St. Swithum, Lordly Oberon, Dapple Dawn, Francine Austin, Mary Rose, Chianti, Jayne Austin, Abraham Darby, Charlotte, Lilian Austin, Sir Clough, The Countryman and The Pilgrim. Seven of these were also reasonably tolerant to black spot. These were (decreasing tolerance): The Countryman, May Rose, Jayne Austin, Lilian Austin, St. Swithum, Lordly Oberon and Sir Clough.
In late Autumn rose bushes were individually mounded with soil for winter protection of the base and crown of each plant. Only 9 cultivars overwintered with 100% survival. Eleven cultivars had 0% survival with the remaining 38 cultivars falling between the two extremes. The 1995/96 winter hardy cultivars were Abraham Darby, Brother Cadfael, Chianti, Constance Spry, Leander, Lilian Austin, Robbie Burns, Shropshire Lass, St. Swithum. The initial results from the 1996 growing season, along with the previous results, suggest that cultivars, Chianti, Constance Spry, Lilian Austin, Shropshire Lass and St. Swithum show promise when their overall performance is considered.
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So with regard to disease resistance, they're saying that "Seven of these were also reasonably tolerant to black spot. These were (decreasing tolerance): The Countryman, May Rose, Jayne Austin, Lilian Austin, St. Swithum, Lordly Oberon and Sir Clough."
Which is not exactly exciting news, given that "reasonably tolerant" is usually, in practice, not an exciting rating.
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I grow at least five David Austin roses, they all blackspot badly. In fact 'Blush Noisette', grown as a shrub, is just as good for fragrance and flowering ability as any Austin rose and never gets any diseases with me.
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#1 of 5 posted
16 AUG 04 by
Anonymous-94458
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I suspect that all pre-PBR varieties will eventually be considered "inferior" - for commercial reasons!!
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What does PBR stand for?
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#5 of 5 posted
1 JUN 11 by
Cradoc
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Plant Breeder's Rights - exclusive commercial rights to a registered variety
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Thank you very much.
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#2 of 5 posted
11 NOV 06 by
Unregistered Guest
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I completly agree! I have 3 Lordly Oberons in my gardens and they are giant with the most wonderful fragrant cupped roses. It is a very romantic rose. Long arching stems that look gorgeous in a tall glass vase. Heady fragrance.
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#3 of 5 posted
23 APR 07 by
Anonymous-797
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I have this rose growing in Adelaide, South Australia and have found it to be very vigorous, reasonably drought tolerant and very fragrant. Mine is very lanky so I 'hoop' the stems and this produces more blooms as otherwise they only bloom on the ends of the very long canes.
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Lordly Oberon is a very nice rose. In San Jose, CA it is climbing on my gate. However, to my nose, this rose has no fragrance... But the blooms are beautiful nonetheless. A nice and rarer rose.
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#1 of 1 posted
7 JUN 09 by
Lora
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I do not detect any fragrance on mine either. Still a nice bush, and I like the flower form.
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