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"Alice Hamilton - in commerce" rose Reviews & Comments
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I picked OP hips this fall. Will report on progeny.
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The provenance for the cuttings supplied to the Sacramento Historic City Cemetery goes as follows:
I received the plant after a talk given to the Desert Rose Society some years ago; they received the plant/cuttings from Robert Rippetoe who received the plant personally from the hands of Ralph Moore.
Robert has grown both 'Old Blush' and 'Alice Hamilton' side by side and believes that while the plants are similar, they are not identical.
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Keep in mind that 'Alice Hamilton' was bred from 'Old Blush'. There is an obvious affinity but there also seem to be differences.
'Alice Hamilton' blossoms seem to have better substance and blush a bit more when exposed to sunlight.
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Robert..........
I looked up the lineage for 'Alice Hamilton' which lists 'Parson's Pink China' as the pollen parent. When I checked 'Parson's Pink China', I found that it was a synonym for 'Old Blush'. 'Old Blush' is not mentioned in the REFERENCES, which show other parentages, but my question is:
Would it be more informative to site users to use 'Old Blush' in the HMF lineage on the rose page with a NOTE explaining that 'Parson's Pink China' is a synonym for OB ?
Smiles,
Lyn
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I know the names are synonymous. Perhaps others do not, so I see your point.
It seems to me the parentage should be stated as first supplied by the hybridizer for historical accuracy.
Popularity of names change over time.
IMO, It's up to us as researchers to recognize synonyms.
Best wishes, Robert
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Is there some discussion re the veracity of this identification? The early references describe a rose with a large, semi-double, bright velvety crimson bloom.
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Billy, whatever I have here, it doesn't match that description. I don't know where Sequoia received it from but looking at posted photos, it seems to be the same as that grown in Europe under the same name.
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I think Robert is right regarding the need for researchers to be aware of the various synonyms; however, it seems to me that the service here is for both newbies and pros. At some time we are all newbies--(well, maybe not Robert) and need the additional information not to be misled.
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Hi JD...
I agree that the breeder/raiser of a rose should determine which name to use in the lineage of a rose and, if we have the REFERENCES available, that should be what shows on the rose page on HMF. Until we have a REFERENCE that specifically states the parentage with 'Old Blush' as the pollen parent, it might be best to leave it as it stands because the REFERENCES we do have don't report the same lineage.
If someone has a REFERENCE that we can add that is more specific, which I know may be hard to find, we can add it to the database.
Smiles,
Lyn
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There is a Nabonnand study group in France that may have access to records.
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Reply
#9 of 9 posted
4 MAR 14 by
 Rockhill
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If you look up the Friends of Nabonnand roses website, you will see that they cannot verify that the rose currently being sold as 'Alice Hamilton' in Europe and the US is the original rose. it certainly does not match the description in the Nabonnand catalogue of 1904, which will shortly be posted on HMF.
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Import rose currently in quarantine at Vintage Gardens. May be pre-ordered through 12/31/11 for delivery in 2013.
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