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'Dr. Grill' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 109-259
most recent 26 AUG 20 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 13 MAR 18
* This post deleted by user *
Reply #1 of 19 posted 13 MAR 18 by Patricia Routley
Thank you. Reference added.
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Reply #2 of 19 posted 14 MAR 18 by HubertG
Perhaps I should have also added that this description is the accompanying text to the colour lithogroaph of Dr Grill posted here in photo ID 115362 by jedmar in April 09.
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Reply #3 of 19 posted 25 APR 18 by HubertG
From the book "Eversley Gardens and Others" by Rose G. Kingsley, published by George Allen, London 1907, page 136:

"I have, however, kept two of my greatest favourites till the last. They are certainly among the very best for bedding; and one, the delightful Dr. Grill, is not as universally cultivated as it should be. Perfect in shape, prolific in flowers of a delicious mixture of pale copper shaded with tender pink and China-rose, it is deliciously fragrant and lasts well in water."
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Reply #4 of 19 posted 26 APR 18 by Patricia Routley
Thank you HubertG. Reference added. I hope you are getting the copper message.
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Reply #5 of 19 posted 26 APR 18 by HubertG
You're welcome. I would definitely call this pale copper.
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Reply #6 of 19 posted 26 APR 18 by Patricia Routley
I wouldn't. I would call it "Comtesse Riza du Parc (in commerce as, in Australia)".
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Reply #7 of 19 posted 26 APR 18 by Margaret Furness
Which has been suspected of being Dr Grill.
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Reply #9 of 19 posted 26 APR 18 by HubertG
Also the Australian CRdP seems to throw out blooms in small clusters. Mine really is solitary and only on thick new shoots would you get as many as three flowers, but they bloom successively, not at once. See the photo above.
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Reply #8 of 19 posted 26 APR 18 by HubertG
No, my Dr Grill definitely isn't that. "Not CRdP" has different receptacles, stems are red, flowers different.
Do you really think that it should be given it's own study name and listing?
It was purchased as Dr Grill, it would be a pity to 'de-identify' it if it is the real Dr Grill.
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Reply #10 of 19 posted 26 APR 18 by Patricia Routley
Yes, I really do. It would keep the original rose file clear, while the search goes on. But so that your rose is not entirely lost, what about a "study name" of "Dr. Grill - ex Honeysuckle Nursery, Australia"?
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Reply #11 of 19 posted 26 APR 18 by HubertG
That sounds like a good idea, as long as it is referenced in the original Dr Grill listing, so anyone looking up Dr Grill can still check it out. I'm not convinced it's wrong.

Edit: But then again, the Dr Grill roses shown here from Loubert, Jensen, Vintage Gardens and Bielski can't all be correct either, so I'm in two minds as to why mine should be segregated.
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Reply #12 of 19 posted 26 APR 18 by Patricia Routley
Done. We now have two files:
'Docteur Grill' 1884
"Dr. Grill - ex Honeysuckle Nursery, Australia".

Would you please check the new foundling file.
Unfortunately I am unable to transfer the relevant comments into the new file so they will have to stay where they are. There are also the two photos above in this comment that need to be transferred, or left where they are.
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Reply #13 of 19 posted 26 APR 18 by HubertG
Thanks. When I search for Dr Grill only the old Dr Grill file comes up.

Edit: I have found it now but I had to search for contains 'honeysuckle' . No one will ever see it if it doesn't come up as an option searching for Dr Grill. When I search for 'Comtesse Riza du Parc' three options for this rose show up. Why wouldn't the new category for my Dr Grill come up when I search for Dr Grill?

The flower stems aren't red by the way. They are green. My comment a few posts above was referring to the flower stems of the Australian CRdParc.
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Reply #14 of 19 posted 26 APR 18 by Patricia Routley
Yes, there seems to be a problem. Both roses should come up in a search for Dr. Grill.
Admin, can you take a look please. We have
"Dr. Grill - ex Honeysuckle Nursery, Australia" - plant i.d. 81418
'Dr.Grill' - plant i.d. 1548.
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Reply #15 of 19 posted 6 MAY 18 by HubertG
Here's an interesting comment about Dr Grill as a seed parent. From Rosen-Zeitung 1901, page 9, under the heading:
"Allerlei Erfahrungen bei Rosenbefruchtungen.

Auch Dr. Grill ist unter die guten Mutterrosen zu zählen, deren Sämlinge im Wuchs und Laub meist die Mutterrose ausstechen. Wer kennt nicht die schöne Antoine Rivoire?"

All Sorts of Experiences with Rose Fertilisations.

Also Dr. Grill is to be counted among the good seed parents, whose seedlings, in growth and foliage, usually replicate the mother rose. Who does not know the beautiful Antoine Rivoire?
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Reply #16 of 19 posted 6 MAY 18 by Patricia Routley
Thanks HubertG. Reference added.
Yes, it is most interesting. At the time of writing (1901) there were three seed children from 'Dr. Grill: 'Mme. Abel Chatenay' 1894, Antoine Rivoire 1895, and Mrs. William Howard Taft 1895. There were another seven seed-bred roses after that date.

Your roses are not listed on HelpMeFind at the moment. Do you have 'Mme. Abel Chatenay'? Mine was a foundling ("Bob Williams Old Mud Hut") and I am reasonably confident that it is correctly identified, because of its hips. Unfortunately 'Antoine Rivoire' never came my way so I am unable to compare these last two, but I can't see much similarity between these last two blooms on paper/screen.
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Reply #17 of 19 posted 7 MAY 18 by HubertG
I never grew Mme Abel Chatenay but did grow Antoine Rivoire (from Golden Vale?) briefly before I grew my Dr Grill. I didn't keep it because I was limited for space and to be honest I can't really remember too much about the growth and foliage. The flowers were a creamy flesh colour mostly. What has puzzled me a bit about Mme Abel Chatenay is that it was such a popular rose everywhere that you would think it would be something that never dropped out of circulation, but it seems to have done that.
There are plenty of old photos of MmeAC that should be helpful to identify it correctly. I looked for your Mud Hut rose and couldn't find any photos or a listing.

I hope my translation of the German passage above hasn't given a wrong impression. 'Ausstechen' which I've translated as 'replicate', literally means 'cut out' or 'pierce out' but it can also mean to outdo or compete with (we need Jay-Jay's help here lol). In any case, the sense is that Dr Grill usually bequeaths its vigour and foliage type to its offspring when it is a seed parent.
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Reply #18 of 19 posted 7 MAY 18 by Patricia Routley
Photos added to 'Mme. Abel Chatenay'.
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Reply #19 of 19 posted 7 MAY 18 by HubertG
Thanks. Form is very similar to the Catherine Klein watercolour just above it.
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Reply #20 of 19 posted 26 AUG 20 by kai-eric
'ausstechen' should be understood in the way of 'to top' or even 'to surpass'.
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